On this week’s episode of What the Trans!? Flint, Alyx and Ashleigh spend precious minutes of their lives talking about:
- The Levy Review into adult gender services.
- Updated definitions and diagnostic criteria for trans people in Japan.
- Our regular trip to Loser’s Corner.
- The BMA confirming that they will conduct their review of the Cass Review (ding!) “from a position of neutrality”
- Following the resignation of Labours’ Rosie Duffield, the team talk through some of her ‘greatest hits’ and her often-underwhelming performance as an MP
Join our Discord!
References:
A Small Correction
Labour Women’s Declaration
Levy Review
Levy Review of Adult GDC Services – a Freedom of Information request to NHS England – WhatDoTheyKnow
Japan
Japanâs Transgender Treatment Guidelines Receive Update â What The Trans!?
Dr. Pallavi Devulapalli
Dr Pallavi Devulapalli – Statement – Greens in Exile
“Free Speech” Brighton
https://archive.ph/CRyFh (Telegraph article, archived copy)
Shahrar Ali
Labour Councillor’s Transphobia
STATEMENT: Our Response to Labour Councillor’s Transphobia – Pride in Labour
BMA
BMA confirms support for undertaking its evaluation of the Cass Review from a position of neutrality
https://archive.is/hAB7S (New Statesman article, archived copy)
New EHRC Consultation and CEO
Bye Bye, Rosie Duffield! (as an MP, at least)
‘It’s time Canterbury MP Rosie Duffield stood up to legitimate scrutiny’ – KentOnline
âFritâ, âLazyâ or a Cry Bully? â Whitstable Views – The absolutely savage article Ashleigh highlighted.
Profiled: New Social Covenant Unit | Trans Safety Network
Rosie Duffield âfrit or lazyâ criticism extremely unfair, says Wes Streeting | The Independent
ROSIE DUFFIELDâS âBRANDâ COLLAPSES â Whitstable Views
Rosie Duffield: What has the former Labour MP said about trans people and trans rights? – Pink News
Transcript
Flint: Thank you editors, oh kind godly lords of audio.
Alyx: Love you!
[Intro music plays]Flint: Hello folks. How are we doing there at home wherever you may be, it’s What The Trans!?
Ashleigh and Alyx: [singing in harmony] What The Trans!?
Ashleigh: Howdy, folks.
Alyx: Hey! It’s another lovely Thursday afternoon. How are you, Ashleigh?
Ashleigh: Yeah, fine. I’m going to be really British and talk about the weather for a minute because I think over, more or less, the entire country Monday was rubbish. It was just pissing it down the entire day. I don’t know if that was the case, [in a fake Northern accent] “down south” for you, Alex, but…
Alyx: Oh, it was absolutely the same. It seems that whenever I go out to commute, it decides to rain. But the moment I’m inside the office it’s bone dry as hell. I think it’s God having spite on me.
Ashleigh: Well, yeah, unfortunately we can never be sure when the deities choose to smite us. But yeah, I’m doing all right, again, I’ve been picking up new records left right and centre because I kind of don’t have very much else to do. [laughs] So I had The Go! Team this week, there’s the 20th anniversary edition of Thunder Lightning Strike, which is a fantastically energetic album. But I also picked an album which is kind of the polar opposite of that. It’s this kind of low-key capital-A art, melancholy, ambient kind of thing by Hania Rani, who is a Polish musician. There’s a whole booklet that comes with the record that I got which is cut from two live performances. They’re an incredibly well behaved audience in both places. They are just in dead silence while beautiful little melodies are ringing out. It’s really good! So yeah, would recommend. Doubt we’ll get a drop in for that [loud buzzer sounds] because it’s just too long for there to be, you know, 10 or 15 seconds of which.
Alyx: And it sounds like you’d have to have the whole lot to appreciate it.
Ashleigh: Oh, very much so. So never mind. Here’s 10 seconds of “Junior Kickstart” by The Go! Team.
[10 seconds of “Junior Kickstart” by The Go! Team]Flint: [Chanting] Music, music,
Ashleigh and Alyx: [joining chanting] Music, music, music, music.
Flint: How have you been, Alyx? How you been up to?
Alyx: I’ve been doing alright, I haven’t been quite listening… actually I’ve been listening to some music quite recently. I’ve been enjoying the Jeff Wayne…
Flint: Ah, absolutely!
Ashleigh: Ah Jeff Wayne’s music version of the War of the Worlds!
[“Jeff Wayne’s Musical Version of The War of the Worlds” plays]Flint: Yes! The best, the best.
Ashleigh: Absolutely fantastic. [Music plays again, Ashleigh singing] Yeah, so I’ve loved that album from when I first heard it, so…
Flint: Yeah, same.
Ashleigh: Like, and I was a kid as well, sometimes when I was with my very middle-class family, we would rather than watching a film or playing a board game, we would listen to an album. And the first time we did that, and most memorable time, was Jeff Wayne’s Musical Version of the War of the Worlds. And I love that album to this day.
Flint: I think I first heard it when I was in a car, I think. I was really, really young. I think it was like a friend of my dad’s, had it on when we were driving somewhere and I immediately was like “oh, this is some of the best music I’ve ever heard in my fucking life!” And then I didn’t know what it was until one of my friends in high school had it on vinyl ’cause her dad was into Hawkwind and shit, so of course he had Jeff Wayne’s War of the Worlds. And I came in one day and she was just playing it and I was like “oh my god, it’s this!” and she was like “Yeah, yeah! It’s actually a whole big thing, it goes off like, two or three hours.” I was like “ahhh!”
Ashleigh: That sounds amazing! So a slight derailment from where it was supposed to be, but I promise this is worth it because when I was in college we did plays and shit, and bits of musical theatre. They were doing a version of Evita like a shorter version, cut down, and I didn’t want to be in that. So I just sort of had a word with the music teacher was like “look I’m sorry, but I just I fucking hate Evita, I don’t want to do it.” So I wasn’t involved with that, but I ended up doing… like the support act was like a 40 minute version of The War of the Worlds, and they needed somebody to do the… they needed somebody to be Richard Burton.
Alyx: Ohh!
Flint: Ah, no way!
Ashleigh: So I got to [drops to a lower register] “do the voice”.
Flint: Oh!
[clip of Richard Burton plays]Richard Burton: No one would have believed in the last years of the 19th century that human affairs were being watched from the timeless worlds of space.
Ashleigh: [as Richard Burton] “No one would have believed.”
Alyx: Ohh, that posh lovely voice, that…
Flint: “the creatures would swarm and multiply”, oh my god, yes!
Ashleigh: Exactly yes, oh and it was so… err… to this day I can still probably do almost all of the narrated parts from War of the Worlds because I just memorised it all back then, even though I completely didn’t need to. So yes, that’s tremendous. I want to see, like a queer, queer space funk version of the War of the Worlds. I think that would be awesome. I don’t know whoâd do narration for it, Laura Jane Grace, maybe.
Flint: Ooh.
Ashleigh: Janelle MonĂĄe.
Alyx: I think Ashleigh would be a great contender herself!
Flint: Yaaaah!
Ashleigh: It’s a question of getting the copyright, isn’t it?
[laughs]Alyx: Sorry, should we ask how he’s been ’cause we’ve sort of…
Ashleigh: Yeah, we did just kinda skip over there, didn’t we?
Flint: Yes, hi, I’m back! [Big Hollywood dramatic sound effect] Once again banished from the land of bad audio. Well, hopefully if this audio works out as well as we want it to. Back on the home turf. Yeah, and I’ve been alright! I’ve been good. I’ve been, uhm. I’ve had to do some unexpected travel. You know, life happens. But I got really into writing poetry recently actually, whilst I was out and about.
Ashleigh: Cool!
Flint: Yeah, it was kind of a nice fun surprise. I was, uhh, it’s that kind of thing where sometimes when you end up travelling a bit, you end up losing your usual things that you’ll go to for comfort and stuff like that. I made a little impulse-buy of a little green notebook that I saw and went “Ah, I’ve been feeling the need to jot things down, fuck it!” and by the time I came back I had a good five or six different poems that I’d written so that was fun.
Ashleigh: Very good!
Flint: And now that I’ve gotten back, I’ve honestly just been playing some video games. I’ve actually… I’ve finally got the platinum on Alan Wake, the first one. A game that perplexes me and has a very interesting hold on me. It’s a video essay that I would do if I had a bit more time and confidence, because I find it a very interesting enigma of a game that kind of… it’s a very good example for me of special interests that aren’t necessarily those straight up “Oh my god, I love everything about this” and it’s more the special interest of “you are a fascinating enigma phenomenon that I need to understand every part of.” Anyway, yeah, that’s what I’ve been doing; poetry and video games.
Ashleigh: That kicks ass. That sounds great. OK.
Flint: I wrote a limerick the other day, that was quite fun. “There was a man from Bishop Auckland, he rarely drank more than he ought to, one night was unlucky, lost odds out on Bucky, and thought he was in Bishop Stortford.”
[laughs]Alyx: Ah, brilliant. I really wouldn’t want to end up in Bishop Stortford.
Flint: Yeah, well, it was because of the… when I went to Bishop Auckland Pride, there was a funny moment where one of the drag queens accidentally came out on stage and went “Hi Bishop Stortford!” and everyone went “What?”
Alyx: We’re not those bastards from Stansted!
Flint: Is it in Stansted? I’m not actually entirely sure I just know it’s Southern.
Alyx: I used to go past it every day on the bus on my last commute. It’s a tiny little town that, at one point Donald Trump was on his way to a state visit as president, and on the flight path there was this teenager who… I can’t remember what it said, but on his lawn just made a bit of text saying “Fuck Off Trump”. Right, like for him to see. But there’s a lot more people we want to tell to fuck off recently…
Ashleigh: Oh, aren’t there just. It’s been lovely, and it’s great to have you back Flint. But let’s crack on, shall we? So first…
Flint: …time for the news!
[Sound effect of awws and murmurings]Alyx: Ah, not the news!
Flint: Unfortunately, yeah.
Ashleigh: Couple of things I wanna mention just before we get going: because last time we did the medicalization bell [boxing ringing bell sounds], this time we’re going to do a Cass Review bell! [quieter, typing noises in background] Ding-ding noise, like a boxing bell type thing, please, Amber and/or Lowry and Oli, love you, mwah!
Ashleigh: So each time we mention the Cass Review, we’re going to have a little ding noise [ding] and we’re going to try and total up towards the end of the episode and see how many we’ve got. So that’ll be fun, listen out for those. And a couple of people got in touch with us over the last couple of weeks, pointing out that they weren’t entirely sure which education guidance we were talking about last time. So as a quick clarification about that. The guidance we were talking about was “Keeping Children Safe in Education”, which is published every year. It is not the same document that is currently under consultation, that is currently under review. There are two different things. This is just a yearly documentation and this year’s iteration of it has removed any trans-inclusive language. And that was what we were focusing on last time. However, what we talked about last time was that the Government said “in the exceptionally rare case where a child may be at risk of severe harm” if you out them to their parents, we questioned the veracity of that claim and an FOI has revealed that the government don’t actually hold any data about where that claim comes from. They made an assertion that it was exceptionally rare for children and young people to be at risk of harm if they’re outed at school, but they don’t hold any data that backs that up. So just a quick little update there.
Flint: So the first piece of news that we have is actually about the Labour Conference. Conference season is over now, but in the meantime we have had our mix of transphobes being given the finger… or the boot in the case of the Green Party, more on that later… but one party that hasn’t had its conference covered yet was the Labour Party. We will only go over it briefly, but some bits are worth a mention. One organisation that has sparked a lot of attention within the conference would be Stonewall. On his first day, the new CEO of Stonewall, Simon Blake, joined a panel with Anneliese Dodds and a bunch of cis people. Something which not a single trans or gender-diverse person was invited to, despite us being a key demographic. Alongside this, it has also been reported that at least one member of Stonewall met with the anti-trans Labour Women’s Declaration group’s stall that we talked about last time. Something we were disappointed to hear. We reached out to Stonewall to comment on the lack of trans representation on that panel and its member meeting with the anti-trans group’s stall, but unfortunately they did not get back to us. Which, given the organisation’s previous historical reluctance to support trans folk, is really disappointing.
But the cycle of rubbish from the Labour Women’s Declaration unfortunately didn’t end there. Jess Phillips, the parliamentary under-secretary of state for safeguarding and violence against women and girls, decided to make an appearance at one of their events. So yeah, this is uhm… an unfortunate meeting of minds.
Ashleigh: So the Labour Women’s Declaration, obviously, we last spoke about them in Episode 113 where they’d created a handy little guide for MP’s arguing against a conversion therapy ban, saying that [dark string music plays during quote] “sometimes ex-patients reframe difficult or unhappy experiences in therapy as conversion therapy.” Basically trying to kinda normalise conversion therapy and make it seem legit. So that’s who the Labour Women’s Declaration are. It’s a bit gross that they had people from Stonewall turning up to their stall; and then Jess Phillips turning up at one of their events. So that’s just gross, and I don’t like it.
Flint: Yeah, I’m not keen on it either. ‘Cause Stonewall have had a good period of time being fairly vocal on trans rights for a bit… and I know that’s not always been the case. They’ve got a history that’s not entirely on the right side of history. We’ll put it that way. It is upsetting to see what appears to be a regression. It seems suddenly they’re taking the transphobia that we’re seeing in these circles less seriously. That’s really concerning. At least that’s what these actions seem to speak to me. Because if you understand the advocacy that your organisation has been doing for the last few years, then you should understand why that’s not really an appropriate thing to maybe be doing. Unfortunately, there were some people that I think have always had some suspicion about Stormwall advocating for trans rights, and, you know, it’s a shame if they end up proven right.
Alyx: Yeah. I mean, ’cause when it comes to Stonewall, they, as you mentioned, they have had some good work in the past. Sometimes it did look like they did need some kind of twisting of the arm on the odd occasion, but at least they’re the sort of organisation that’s malleable to just the right pressure. So most of the time it’s just making sure they’re kept under the spotlight of making sure they need to stand up with us.
Flint: Yeah.
Alyx: I will say they didn’t come back to us. And I also added on as a question, when I did approach them to say “Can you also make sure that you stand equivocally to say that the Labour Women’s Declaration group is also an anti-trans group, or do you agree with us about that?” as well. So I’m hoping they can come back to us. I might have to chase up again on that one. But there is… Stonewall has done some great stuff and we just needs to hope that people can work with it because there’s still potential.
Ashleigh: And we need to not let them forget…
Alyx: Yeah.
Ashleigh: … basically, you just need to keep banging on about it. Essentially. I mean, I know several trans people who work for Stonewall, so if they started backsliding, they’re going to lose a lot of staff, I think?
Flint: Mhmm, yeah.
Alyx: Yeah, there’s been some concerns from other members of the community on that front, especially some gossip we’ve heard in the background, which you can’t really…
Ashleigh: Which, yeah, we’ll come to that later if we are ever able to. But speaking of things that are of concern to the community…
Alyx: Yes, the Levy Review. So you remember how bad the Cass Review was [ding], and how rigged that felt. And remember how Cass had no prior experience with gender services. Some of you may also remember when an FOI found out that Cass was the only person interviewed and considered for that review. Guess what? The latest review on Adult Gender Services that is a follow-up to the Cass Review is also being run by a clinician… guess what, with no prior experience in gender services. Turns out that David Levy was also the only person interviewed for his role as head of the review. While some people aren’t sure on David Levy’s leanings towards trans rights, @reactiveashley has done some digging yet again. According to Ashley, David Levy was a medical director of the LSCICB or Lancashire and South Cumbria Integrated Care Board. An organisation which introduced a ban on GPs working with private gender clinics. Which also included banning GPs from working with trans people and banning GPs from providing blood tests for people doing DIY HRT. He is heading up that organisation and we may need to do some digging. But let’s hope this isn’t an indicator that we don’t want to step back… as when we saw that he headed it up, he started heading it up after that ban was put in place.
Ashleigh: So he has been in a position to be able to scrap that ban and hasn’t done that.
Flint: Yeah.
Ashleigh: So I mean, I’m sure that the medical director for the Lancashire and South Cumbria Integrated Care Board does involve a lot of work and is probably not going to have a great deal of time to spend thinking about literally 0.5% of the population. But equally, you think it would have come up, you know?
Alyx: It’s probably an FOI material, right?
Ashleigh: Maybe. Yeah. It certainly could happen. But equally, they could just come back with “well, no, because he was busy with other things. What is wrong with you transes?” Though I doubt they’d put that on an FOI response, at least not in so many words.
Flint: No. I mean, I feel like some of them might if they… could.
Ashleigh: Pretty much. Unfortunately, it’s one of those stories where we can only watch with mounting horror at the sort of person who seems to be asked to do all of these things. You know, you can’t do anything at high level about trans people if you’ve had any experience with trans people, you have to have been not involved at all?
Flint: Which is… it is really mind boggling. We have to bring up how the… and completely antithetical to basic fucking knowledge it is… to deliberately go out of your way to make sure that the person that you’re hiring to do a national review of a service designed for a certain kind of person has zero experience with the people that will be affected by that review. The argument that “ohh it would be bias” is absolute bullshit because it’s experience! Would you be happy with a heart surgeon being not involved anywhere near your heart surgery… but instead we’re gonna bring in an orthopaedic surgeon. Like sure! They may have at some point sat in lectures on heart surgery or hearts in general, but they won’t have gone through understanding the specifics, the experience of doing these things consistently. And, you know, it’s… ohh it’s maddening. It’s maddening. Because it’s just not anywhere near good science.
Ashleigh: Yeah, agreed. Like, why would you deliberately exclude all of the experience that comes from talking to someone who’s, you know, spent some time in the world that you’re examining?
Flint: Bodies are not impartial. If you want to understand how a body works and how best to treat a body, you have to be understanding of that body and that body’s needs.
Ashleigh: Yes.
Alyx: Exactly. But I suppose that’s one medical establishment doing some bad stuff, but a little bit further afield…
Ashleigh: Let’s go, if we go a little further afield and we can find a medical establishment doing some stuff that’s actually not catastrophically dreadful! So we’re going to go to Japan, and once again this story would not have been possible without the outstanding work of our Japanese correspondent, Viridian Lakes, who has diligently been reading documentation and emailing organisations to find this stuff out and write it for a non-Japanese audience. This section should be interpreted as an enthusiastic encouragement to check out the various articles they’ve written for us over on our website!
Now we’re going to specifically talk about some of the updates Japan has put in place for its transgender treatment guidelines and diagnostic criteria. And perhaps surprisingly, some of it is, you know… good! Weird, I know. Firstly, it’s been renamed. It’s no longer called “gender identity disorder” and is now called “gender incongruence”. This rebranding even stretches to the name of the Japanese Society for Gender Identity Disorder, which has been retitled the Japanese Society for Gender Incongruent or JSGI. All of the diagnostic criteria Japan uses are still based on the 7th edition of the WPATH’s Standards of Care, and that includes this new one. The newer 8th edition that was released in 2022 receives a mention in the introduction, but nothing further. The big rebrand seems to have been prompted by changes in the DSM-5 and the ICD-11, rather than anything from WPATH. Plus, the previous Japanese guidelines were put in place in 2011 with a few updates through 2018… so it does make sense to update these things from time to time. Secondly, ring that bell because we have another mention of the accursed Cass Review [ding!], but this time in a slightly more critical way [ding sound plays backwards]. I’ll quote directly from the Japanese guidelines here, quote:
[Piano plays softly during quote]“Multiple relevant international organisations, including the Endocrine Society in the United States, have made statements to the effect that the issues pointed out by the Cass Review were already known, that puberty suppression treatment has been developed over many years, and that determinations on things such as the efficacy and safety of puberty suppression treatment should be made based on scientific findings.”
[Piano ends]“Should be made based on scientific findings”. That’s doing a lot of heavy lifting to show that the writers of these Japanese guidelines don’t think much of the Cass Review. Fantastic phrasing, 10 out of 10, no notes. [fanfare horns play] But wait, there’s more! [fanfare horn plays reversed] Because we also have, quote: “WPATH 8th edition SOC in regards to the effectiveness, limits, and side-effects [of puberty suppression treatment] is written based on a greater number of systematic reviews than the Cass Review.”
Ashleigh and Flint: Ooooohh.
[inaudible]Ashleigh: All of which is good. But there are a few wrinkles on the horizon as well. So firstly, according to another article that Viridian has written for us, it seems that the process for a legal change of gender recognition is likely to become more stringent with requiring two specially approved doctors to sign off on it. Whereas in the past any two experienced psychiatrists would do. The guidance also doesn’t seem to be moving towards an informed consent model of trans healthcare, something the newer WPATH guidelines are in favour of. There does seem to be one clinic in Japan working with this kind of model, but it remains to be seen how much of an impact this will have on the wider care landscape. So yeah, bit of a mixed bag. But what did you think?
Flint: Honestly, it’s pretty nice to see by no means perfect moves but things that seem to be grounded in a bit more of a sense of reasonableness that, I just, you know, you don’t see here these days anymore. Not from the people that are in the positions of power, nine times out of ten. That’s refreshing. Obviously, it’s not perfect. Hopefully the right changes are made in future and they keep listening to WPATH and you know all of those things, yeah.
Ashleigh: Yeah. You kind of want it to develop from here.
Flint: Yeah. Keep the momentum.
Alyx: It sounds like there’s lots of potential for moving forward. That’s some good news on the horizon, but there is also some worries about some future legislation from the Japanese Parliament, Diet as well, which viridian’s going to be doing some good work covering. But we get this positive news about the healthcare systems, but it may not look so rosy when we talk about the gender recognition stuff in the future.
Ashleigh: In a little while, yes, indeed, because unfortunately, Japan does have its own streak of anti trans people, many of whom are now pointing to the [bell] Cass Review and saying, look, this justifies everything we’re saying. We shouldn’t give any treatment to these people at all. We’ll see what they come out with, and Viridian will do us a special article all about it.
Flint: Yes. Well, moving on Next up is Loserâs Corner [sound effects]. Loserâs Corner this week takes us to Norfolk due to Dr. Pallavi Devulapalli. Well, Pallavi had a palaver recently. She was the health spokesperson for the Green Party in England and Wales until she got suspended. The Green Party haven’t given any details as they quote, do not comment on individual disciplinary cases. However, we can hazard a guess that it’s likely something to do with her recent statements about the 11% increase in trans hate crimes. During an election hustings in Downham Market she made comments of her personal opinion about the truthfulness of the government reported increase in hate crime against trans people, starting with the ignorant but somewhat gentle, I’ve yet to meet anyone who says someone shouldn’t have the right to be addressed as they please, but finishing on the downright conspiratorial, I think there’s something mischievous in the air to make out this to be an issue. Co-chair of the LGBTQIA+ Greens Kate Hatton, said that this was, quote, just the most recent thing in a long list of things that have made people uncomfortable. Meanwhile, Devulapalli doubled down, telling the BBC there is no trans hate in society in general.
Letâs back up here for a second and really just take stock of what she said. Because you might miss just how genuinely concerningly detached this is if you don’t break it down. Let’s play out her logic and turn up the volume on the quiet part. If the stat is mischief to make this an issue, then what is being directly implied is that the police and this very own government would have to be in a conspiracy with trans people. As if the police would need any help to do any of the things they have been doing to women and minority groups, including us, when given half the chance. This government and the last both made transphobia the flavour of the election, and yet the good doctor here would have us believe that actually they were doing a double bluff, just like Starmerites kept saying when Keir was pushing out sound bite after sound bite, each being more worthy of Mumsnet than the last. It sounds just a bit too silly to be real, doesn’t it? In reality, the life of our institutions is usually closer to The Thick of It than it is to House of Cards.
[sound effects from The Thick of It – You’re a fucking omnishambles. That’s what you are]Flint: Seriously though, these comments are a denial of the very real danger that many of us live with persistent reminders of as we go through daily lives, if not experiences and memories of. The privilege, it requires to be so unaffected as to not see it as real is representative of how different life is for trans people in the UK. Seriously, yeah, she’s a medical doctor. Like what the fuck?
I know that you will have studied math please. Please have a word. Have a word. I know that crime stats are not the most statistically correct, like, this is the thing. By no means are we saying that these recent government statistics are on the ball 100% accurate, but they are not going to be inaccurate in the way that Dr. Devulapalli is assuming that they are and is trying to imply that they are. They are if anything, going to be under reporting the increase because most people do not go to the police every time something like this happens to them.
Ashleigh: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, why would we? You know, they don’t do anything about it, and you get discriminated against some more so.
Flint: Yeah. And any crime statistics are usually measuring the definitions that we are giving to crime in any given moment more than they are necessarily measuring how many instances of that crime occur versus, you know, at most they’re measuring somewhat best how many instances of crime have occurred under their particular definitions of the instances that they have caught and then considered a crime and then processed.
Alyx: And sometimes I think I heard from a conference a while back that some police forces don’t even have anti trans language as a thing for, as a hate crime, so even in the statistics, some don’t even count it.
Flint: Also, like when I had to one time report a hate crime, I had to put myself down as a trans man and not as non-binary because they physically didn’t have the option in the system. So like, there’s also probably a lot of non-binary erasure that’s happening in terms of the hate crimes that non binary people experience as happened to me because that would be logged as a hate crime towards a binary trans person.
Ashleigh: Yeah. And there’s a number of police services in the UK that like, literally haven’t bothered reporting their hate crime stats to the Home Office, as is, kind of required of, most of them are doing it. But there’s like a glaring exception of Cheshire, which is annoying because I have a relative who works there. And every time I see them Iâm like, why havenât you sent me – You know, they’re not like a police officer. They work kind of in training and recruitment and stuff. So they’re enabling fascism rather than directly being a fascist.
Flint: Speaking of the furthering of fascism, second up in Losersâ Corner is the group Free Speech Brighton, who hired the backroom in a pub to hold talks about the importance of banning speech related to gender identity and sex education in schools. And if that sounds confusing, then you can imagine how the management of the Southern Belle may have felt when they heard the group’s first speech. After which they realised that they had taken a booking that didn’t align with their businessâs values and they asked the group to leave, which is where our story begins because this decision sent the group into a bit of a fight or flight, immediately equating being asked to leave by security to Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. And no, I’m really, really not kidding. These people started spouting what came across truly like a British version of the âI’m sorry I thought this was Americaâ bit in South Park because the pub didn’t feel that their venue was the appropriate venue to have speeches on the inappropriateness of discussing certain topics in certain spaces. Apparently to Free Speech Brighton, all speech is free, but some speech should be more free than others. Unfortunately, the usual suspects of rage bait right wing media picked up the story and are now running it under the notion of the group’s free speech being attacked, not understanding that they are only adding another layer of farce to this slapstick trifle. Selling these events as stamping down on free speech does not understand that free speech was practised, but words have consequences and hopefully Free Speech Brighton and its sister group Free Speech Union learned that lesson, because as much as this section is light hearted in tone, these groups are in the business of peddling dangerous ideals. So please be warned if you see their flyer in your local area.
Also, just can we please talk about – just imagine being a member of the group, or imagine setting up the group Free Speech Brighton, and the only part of that name that you understand is the location.
Ashleigh: Yes, because they’re saying that their speech should be free. But the speech of teachers in school to talk to kids and young people about trans people, that speech should be restricted.
Flint: Yeah, the entire thing is like darkly farcical. They truly aren’t even getting past the first hurdle of basic logic. Like, OK, if I believe this thing, then let’s apply this rule. But it’s not. What they really believe in is controlling speech.
Ashleigh: Yeah, precisely. And that’s some fascism right there. Our speech should be protected. Yours shouldn’t be, you dirty transes. But also I’m just amazed that this whole freedom of speech thing goes so far, because if the best thing that you can say about your position is that it is not literally illegal to express, you need a better argument.
Flint: Yeah, truly.
Ashleigh: Fuckers. So well done to the staff at the Southern Belle, though, whose free speech was also impinged when they were told by free speech, Brian, you can’t say that to us. You can’t just kick us out. It was like, well, I’m just exercising my free speech comrade. Yeah, yeah. Just so many layers of Orwellian bullshit really.
Flint: Genuinely, and there’s a lot of really concerning amounts of like misinformation and it’s actually at the point where a group of people all gathered here under these notions and they all had the same response to being politely asked to just leave and hold their speech somewhere else.
And itâs kind of concerning to me that the way that we are seeing more and more instances of people having these wildly reactive responses to a polite assertion of boundaries when talking about these groups in these kinds of spaces and I feel like we truly are watching a kind of, you know, real time descent into cultic thinking popping up in many places. And it’s, it is – as much as it can be a funny spectacle at points. It is really fucking dangerous and it’s concerning.
Ashleigh: Absolutely. I mean, I think the really obvious example that we can point to as British people is what’s going on in America with Trump, isn’t it? And his supporters. But that kind of, as you say, cultic thinking exists everywhere, and it definitely exists here.
Where people say, oh, well, our position is always right about everything, and I will support it till my last breath, and it does make me wonder like how much of the quote unquote cult element of it like, are people staying in it because they’ve kind of committed too much to it now. Like, are there some people within that movement who are just there because of the sunk cost fallacy?
Flint: I think so, yeah. Like we tend to think a lot about cultic stuff happening in the space of religious things, right. But most frequently these days it’s in corporate spaces, and it’s in much more like socially presentable places than you would anticipate. And you see it in some really, really big examples that a lot of people know, Avon, things like that, where there’s pyramid structures and things. In part, America is a great petri dish for cultic activity because of the way that it encourages these kind of like quickly, immediately amass like a following, and that kind of showiness of gathering together that performativity of progression. And attainment, they’re much bigger values and I think that there are probably a few people that are just kind of in it for the ride. You know, their friends are involved in the group. And so they want to be involved in the group. But I feel like there’s probably going to be a lot of people that unfortunately, genuinely believe, not in terms of necessarily every single word that’s said, but they’ll genuinely believe they’re turning up with the right intentions for a group, that it’s about freedom of speech.
And what they’re really doing nine times out of ten is internalising any rejection from saying some wildly out of pocket things as the control that they are actually trying to put on other people. It’s that weird cycle of protection.
[sound effects]Ashleigh: Yes, we did that. There’s a couple episodes of the USA Podcast up currently. A couple more, have got to episode 5 and 6 out now. I’m still working on getting them a whole separate channel. We do plan to do that to kind of build the audience in America that I think it deserves, but more on that as it develops. And we’re back in the room.
Alyx: Yes, speaking of transphobes who are too deep in the cult, it’s saying one thing, but in reality it’s quite the opposite. On the 27th of September, the BBC News reported online that the Green Party had expelled anti trans activist Shahrah Ali from their party. Ali gained headlines after suing the Green Party and losing. [sound effects]
Particularly because if a party disagrees with your views which are against its own policies, it is allowed to take action against you. Now this story was wholly incorrect as it was not the case he had been expelled. We spoke to some inside sources in the Greens to confirm this, so he lied and BBC were printing it as the truth. And the co-founder of the Feminist Greens,, [unclear], also confirmed on her Twitter account that Ali had been dishonest when he said he’d been expelled from the party. As of the time of writing, it appears that BBC have now altered their article, as it now says, that he has been excluded for two years, not fully expelled from the party. So it appears that BBC have at least corrected themselves, which they are sometimes not all that willing to do.
Ashleigh: Once so this is another one that could have gone Losersâ Corner, isnât it really? Because Ali was in Losersâ Corner a few weeks ago? I forget which episode and I’m not going to look it up. Don’t @ me. Yeah, it’s like, you know, actions have consequences, folks.
Alyx: Yeah, he just keeps losing. [sound effects]
Flint: I feel like this week has been battle of the loser a little bit, it’s party foul after party foul. Like why tell a lie this easy to fact check you’re not thinking two centimetres in front of your nose, fella. I just, uh.
Ashleigh: Yeah. I’m just wondering if it’s anything to do with that old phrase about a lie can travel around the world before the truth has got its boots on, and so if he announces something that is not true, he knows that that will go far and that might be the story that most people are familiar with and will associate rather than the truth. So the thing is, corrections are very easy now. Yeah. You know, as indeed Eliza showed us when she confirmed on Twitter, slash, X that Ali had been dishonest, right? It’s that easy to disprove something now, but still a lot of people are going to have seen what Ali said first and taken that as the truth and won’t be following it up. OK, so sticking with politics, just a quick one before we go into something a little bit chunkier. So we’re now going to talk briefly about the Labour Party actually taking some action against transphobia. How about that?
Flint: I’m sorry. Who? What?
Ashleigh: I know, right? So we have much more on Labour and the transphobia coming from inside the house coming later. But we’ll get there. For now, let us tell the sorry tale of Laurie Burton, a councillor for Labour in Southend. Pride in Labour, which is a newly formed LGBTQ+ group within Labour, released a statement on September 25th about Burtonâs use of language and social media. Specifically, Burton, apparently, quote, has made deeply transphobic remarks towards the Scottish political activist Sophie Mollie on Twitter, slash, X. And made comments more widely about the trans movement. Additionally, Burton also is alleged to have been, quote, posting transphobic remarks, including referring to trans women as blokes, engaging with people known to push hateful ideology against trans people, and reposting content from the LGB Alliance. Both of those quotes are from the Pride in Labour statement, which we’ll put a link for in the description. Not sure if Labour itself, as in the party, have made any response to this, but this group within Labour is agitating for it. And that is progress, I think.
Flint: Yeah, that’s something.
Alyx: Yeah, Pride in Labour, I think I’ve sort of seen some stuff about. They seem to have got some good relations with the Labour for Trans Pride Group, which we’ve spoken to on a few occasions. Pride in Labour has sort of formed a little bit after the general election, I believe, but they’ve sort of been making themselves as an alternative to LGBT Labour at the moment so, I’m very curious to see how it goes, and I hope they continue to build up momentum because they were outside the Labour Conference doing a little protest outside and it was really cool. They had like Nadia Whittome there and all that good stuff. I’m just hoping they can continue to make waves and as much as Labour’s bad, this shows they still got have some kind of fight in there, even if some people might consider it a lost cause.
Ashleigh: Well, absolutely. The party’s not a monolith, you know? It’s not like a collective consciousness; it’s a group of people, many of whom are going to disagree with each other about things.
Alyx: Yeah, and if LGBT Labour isn’t going to do it, who else is?
Ashleigh: Quite. So yeah, fingers crossed, keep an eye on Pride in Labour because hopefully they will carry on what they’re doing. I’m also going to take this next story because I wrote it so… yeah. So Izzy Wizzy, let’s get… medical?
So remember how a few weeks ago we talked about how the British Medical Association, the big doctors’ union for the UK, had voted to peer-review the Cass Review [bell tone sounds]. There’s been an update to that and there have been a lot of people gleefully talking bollocks about what that update means. Firstly, the facts: on September 26th, the BMA released a short statement clarifying that they would undertake their review of the Cass Review from “a position of neutrality” which… yeah, you’d kind of expect that, they’re doctors! Quite big on rationality, truth and careful study so we’re told. A couple of quotes from the BMA statement itself, firstly:
[light piano plays during quote]“The Cass Review has garnered controversy since its publication in April. While welcomed by many others, including patients, their families, academic scientists, legal experts and some members of the British Medical Association voiced concerns. Earlier in the summer, BMA council members voted in favour of carrying out an evidence-led evaluation of the review and a further vote by the Council earlier this week clarified that the BMA will approach its work neutrally.”
And another quote from the BMA chair of council Prof Phil Banfield said:
[light piano music plays during quote]“According to the founding principles of the BMA, our evaluation will be evidence-led, starting from a position of neutrality. I cannot predict the outcome of our evaluation, however I am clear that we will hear different perspectives, always prioritising the needs of transgender children and young people who deserve the very best care.”
Ashleigh: So to me this sounds kind of like a clarification, likely to mollify the anti-trans crowd who have accused the BMA of, among other things, being subject to “institutional capture” [laughter in background], which is a thing they like to accuse us of while doing it cheerfully themselves. The BMA have set out to say “everyone calm the fuck down, we’re going to approach this neutrally!” As a statement it’s short, to the point and I particularly enjoyed the long list of people who’ve questioned the Cass Review just to make it absolutely clear that they are going to listen to everyone… or at least that’s how the statement’s been written. However, you’d better believe the anti-trans crowd have taken this and claimed it as a victory, saying that “oh well, we put pressure on the BMA and now they’re going to do things our way.” So yeah, if you want to go looking for anti-trans people on Twix saying that the review of the Cass Review will now be conducted in a gender-critical way, you are quite welcome to do so. I can’t be arsed quoting these people. But there are some other concerns with regards to the Cass Review and the team that put it together. Specifically, several of the members of the team that put the Cass Review together are now doing talks at the SEGM, The Society for Evidence-Based Gender Medicine, which is another bit of doublethink, isn’t it? They are the opposite of evidence-based gender medicine, right? They’re saying “oh well, we want it to be evidence-based, but we only want the evidence that we look at to be the stuff that we think is approved, which is why we’re going to exclude 90-odd percent of all of the literature about it and just run on a few things that come to the conclusions that we want it to.” So “evidence based”, don’t make me laugh.
Alyx: They’re just a bunch of conversion therapists, for all we know.
Ashleigh: That’s… yeah, that’s exactly it. So it’s been put by a couple of people on Twitter, Zinnia Jones being one of them, that one of the NHS clinicians is Michael Absoud, the deputy chief investigator for the proposed puberty blocker trial. And he’s giving a speech at this SEGM conference, and “SEGM associates are defining the terms on which our gender-affirming care is studied” is the quote from Zinnia and… yeah, that’s pretty bang on, isn’t it?
Flint: Ooh, yeah.
Ashleigh: Because they’re the ones in charge of the debate. They’re the ones deciding where the goal posts are.
Flint: Yeah. It’s really dark stuff, to be honest.
Ashleigh: Mhm, yeah.
Flint: It’s exactly like you said. It’s that double-think, of the way that everything is being done in a way where… if you don’t know a trans person in your life, this will look good.
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Flint: And it’s not. And then trans people are in the position of having to point out “well, no, I know that it says, you know, evidence-based gender… but that’s not what they’re doing” and, you know, you are put in the position of having to explain what sounds like a conspiracy because nothing is labelled the way that it is acting.
Ashleigh: Exactly.
Flint: And nothing is acting the way that it tells you it is. And people are doing things with smiles on their faces and with a sort of, you know, form a sort of the closest thing you get to genuine earnest in these kind of public spaces that most people will just take on board and go “Oh OK, well, they’re just a person doing their job.” And that’s the point. That’s the point. Make it look so reasonable, as long as you know fuck-all about the reality of what it’s like to live as a member of this group.
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Flint: And it’s. Yeah, it’s harrowing.
Ashleigh: Yeah, that’s exactly it. It is. It’s just gross, which is a word that’s getting a lot of use. So I’ll think of a different word, I promise. I’ll start using it next week. The thumb screws are tightening! It feels like, you know, and it kind of feels like everybody should…
Flint: Buckle in.
Ashleigh: Buckle in or… try and claim asylum in New Zealand, I guess.
Flint: I’d love to, but I think their disability laws aren’t good enough [laughs].
Ashleigh: Oh, right. Okay. Well that’s me buggered as well.
Flint: Yeah, it’s always a thing that clinches it, I’ve looked at other countries and other places at various points and it’s always when it gets to the ‘who are they able to accept’ and the disability stuff, it’s always the kicker. Which is a shame.
Alyx: As ever the hopeless optimist I am, I’m sort of looking and thinking as much as it’s being implemented morally, evidence against it is also rising, as we’re seeing by them showing their hands more, doing their victory laps. Something that we can use to stab in the back with later, in a proverbial sense. It’s sort of… things are going to get worse before they get better.
Flint: Yeah. Well, I mean, Keir Starmer literally promised it, so…
Ashleigh: Yeah, yeah, he did, he said “we’re going to implement the Cass Review.”
Flint: The only thing I actually believe out of his mouth at this point, because the man is in the business… like, he will tell you that Tuesday is Thursday if he knows that someone is going to be paying him on Wednesday for it. That’s what it is. But I do believe that when he says it’s gonna get worse for us all, yeah. Yeah. I don’t think he’s lying.
[“Solidarity Forever” plays in the background]Flint: But that doesn’t mean that we should all just lose hope. I don’t want to… I don’t want to be filling up anyone’s ‘doomer-ism meters’ by listening to this.
Alyx: Yeah, we need to keep fighting and this is going to be one for the long haul, quite frankly.
Ashleigh: Yeah, keep fighting and looking after each other.
Flint: Yeah, yeah.
Ashleigh: You know self-care and other care and mutual aid. That’s where it’s at.
[music ends]Ashleigh: Just really, really quickly right at the end of this, before we move on to the next story. There is another FOI request which is highlighted to us by, again, one of our Discord users. Check out our Discord. So we’ve got some new board meeting minutes for the people working on the implementation of the Cass Review [bell tone sounds] and we’ll put a link to that in a description because there’s been some people doing some fantastic work with Freedom of Information requests and we will highlight those until our fingers drop off from all the mouse clicking.
[laughs]Alyx: Oh, definitely. The more people doing FOIs the better.
Ashleigh: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, onward!
Flint: Onward! Well, it has been a little bit of a while since we’ve had any news from the EHRC and let’s dive into that a little bit, because we mostly were waiting for Falkner to be booted out of office, but unfortunately she’s still on the listing. But a new CEO has been appointed at the EHRC. John Kirkpatrick, a guy who was more familiar with trade tariffs than trans rights, a person we have been told may not have had a lot of experience in equalities, is now the CEO of the EHRC. And he was appointed the role in August, most definitely a Labour pick. What he does, we will have to wait and see. But we have to see what he does, as this will help indicate the direction of travel the EHRC will take when or if Falkner leaves. What do we think of the new pick? I know that there was hopes for Harriet Harman.
Ashleigh: Yes.
Alyx: So Harriet Harman’s going to be like the chair who’s looking to be the chair of the EHRC, to replace Falkner. Fortunately the CEO wasn’t pegged to be on the CEO bit, so there’s still hope that it might be this guy, might still have some things. But yeah, not the most experienced.
Ashleigh: Yeah, it just kind of came out of nowhere, this guy didn’t it? Because I remember I heard the announcement, I was like “well, who’s that? I haven’t heard that name before.”
Alyx: Who the fuck is this guy?
Ashleigh: Yeah, pretty much.
Flint: I’ll be honest, I’m a little bit concerned. Because the EHRC, they’d done their work with schools, they’d done their work with, you know, trans rights in many other areas and they signposted that next was coming the consumer stuff. Next was coming the right of businesses. To, you know, and regarding the definition of that. So I’m quite worried by this pick if I’m honest, because it feels like they have picked someone with experience. Experience of businesses.
Alyx: That’s a very good point.
Flint: So I… I feel like they might be, you know, sidestepping the thing of getting someone with another horrendous trans rights record, and instead bringing in someone that gets to be not focused on that aspect and focused on the business aspect and what works well for businesses.
Alyx: And manipulated in place, yeah.
Flint: Yeah. So I am not feeling it.
Ashleigh: Yeah, so I think we’re just going to… they’re going to let us die in silence again by just completely not addressing it.
Flint: Yeah. Or by, you know, bringing in these things under the guise of “this helps protect businesses”, right? And itâs coming from that perspective of “oh well, my experience in trade” and things like.
Ashleigh: Yeah, yeah.
Flint: But that isn’t all for the EHRC either. They have launched a new consultation for their code of practice, and now that we’re still looking into it at the moment and hopefully consulting with some lawyerly types to get more info, but we will link that in the description. And once we have more, we will write something up for it.
Ashleigh: So yeah, do eep an eye on that. I don’t know if our consultation team are scrambling at this very moment to put something together for it, and I don’t know… as in I’m saying that as I don’t want to kind of try and dangle that in anyone’s face. I just…
Flint: Yeah, yeah, we genuinely have no idea.
Ashleigh: Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know.
Alyx: I haven’t particularly moved them to check that one out. I think they’re more from a medical side of things rather than the law part of it. But we are speaking to some lawyerly people.
Flint: Well I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m getting a little bit hungry. Alex, do you want to take us through the meat?
Alyx: Oh, that’s good one!
Flint: Ahh, it was a good one wasn’t it? Thank you. Thank you. Thought of it just now.
Ashleigh: Very good.
[Laughter]Alyx: Yeah, we’ve seen all the bad stuff recently, but maybe we need to have some bit of a celebration, pops and champagne corks, because guess what everyone – Rosie Duffield has resigned from the Labour Party!
[Drum rolls, cheers and Final Fantasy victory music plays]Alyx: Whooo, yes!
Ashleigh: Awww yeah!
Alyx: Get fucked! [Censor bleep sound.] So as you may have seen, the bigot masked in the shroud of legitimacy had resigned from the Labour Party, over the elderly energy tax credit and corruption scandal still going on inside of Labour at the moment. Which to the untrained eye, would be seen as reasonable. However, as the rest of us know, the legacy of Rosie Duffield shows that this resignation means we are one bigot down in parliament. It’s a good job Labour won’t have a load of transphobic shit to keep Duffield happy now that she’s stabbed them in the back, isn’t it? Really playing the long game there, Kier?
Flint: Yeah, well done.
Alyx: You might be wondering what this transphobic shit is and unfortunately for you, dear listener, we have compiled a list of her greatest hits like a shitty album. So what always makes the top of most pages when it comes to other news outlets talking of her transphobic legacy, is her Holocaust denial. Earlier this year, Rosie Duffield had been investigated by the Labour Party for being anti-Semitic after liking a tweet by failed comedy writer Graham Linehan denying that trans people had been murdered in the Holocaust. Something she then doubled down on after being questioned on TV. This case was then dismissed by the Labour NEC. And this one is the one that everyone mainly remembers, but we do have to start from the start on this one. So from brief research, it all started back in August 2020 when Rosie Duffield liked a tweet from [gagging noise] Piers Morgan. “Do you mean women?” In response to a tweet by CNN saying that individuals with a cervix are now recommended to start cervical cancer screening at 25. And after being called out on it, she doubled down.
Ashleigh: In October 2020, it was found that two staffers for Duffield had quit over Rosie’s transphobic comments. They were claiming that Duffield’s views were worthy of condemnation, so that gives you a flavour as to how unpleasant she is. Then she’s been seen boozing it up with JK Rowling, speaking at the LGB Alliance conference, and telling the media that she would misgender Eddie Izzard and refused to call her a candidate if she ran as an MP for the Labour Party in the general election we’ve just had. She also said she would leave the Labour Party if Eddie got selected.
[Clip of Eddie Izzard from “Dress to Kill”: Go then!]Ashleigh: With this, calls for the whip to be withdrawn from her started to grow. The Labour Students group made a statement calling for Rosie’s whip to be taken away, while LGBT Labour stated “our position on this has not changed, the Labour Party must be a safe place for all LGBTQ+ people, especially our trans siblings. The Labour Party must adopt A transphobia definition and a zero tolerance policy on transphobia.” Unfortunately, that fell on deaf ears.
Alyx: Haven’t seen LGBT Labour state about the transphobia definition for a while.
Ashleigh: Hmmmmmm [volume increases] mmmmmmmmm.
Flint: Well, she then published a long ten-tweet thread spouting her anti-trans views on the 10th of September 2021 calling trans women quote “male-bodied biological men”, then calling for trans women to be barred from domestic violence refuges, women’s prisons, single sex wards and school toilets. Coming up to 2023, in January, one senior aide to Starmer, Matthew Doyle, described her actions as “irritating” and that she was spending too much time with JKK Rowling. So, even leadership were getting fed up… but chose to do nothing. In April 2023, Rosie founded an alliance with Miriam Cates, akin to Sarumon and Sauron, [dramatic orchestral music starts playing] in which they claimed they are teaming up to quote “Protect women’s rights” and warned that quote “extremist activists must not be able to wipe away a century of hard-won protections”. And may I remind people that Cates herself is a horrific ghoul in her own right, who actively thwarted any attempt at banning conversion therapy because she was so obsessed with making sure LGBT people got tortured? And with that, Miriam founded a lobbying organisation called the New Social Covenant Unit, NSCU. We will link to what they are about below, as Trans Safety Network did a good job covering it.
Alyx: And with the ungodly alliance push for anti trans legislation, the usual stuff: Wes Streeting, the trans kid murderer we all know and wish never existed, waded in. In an interview in July where Streeting apologised to Rosie Duffield for the backlash to Rosie’s actions, which we had just described. And in that apology explained that the LGBTQ+ community had “missed the mark” at hitting back at a person who wants to make sure we lose our human rights because… guess what? They used the milder term “gender critical” when the appropriate term is “anti-trans activist”. [music ends] And in July 2023, Duffield gleefully celebrated that it was great that Labour wouldn’t try to make trans lives better. Then, in November, the situation of her Holocaust denial happened, and she was placed under investigation, which she was then cleared of in December.
Ashleigh: And you would have thought that she would at least, you know, make sure to do her job as an MP during all of this… something that she was elected to do, regularly meeting with her constituents, listening to their views or putting attention towards local issues so you don’t just look singularly obsessed with trans people? Not so much. Members of her constituency have been neglected: as in June, it was revealed that Rosie refused to do surgeries with the constituency over her “safety”. But then, 24 hours later, she was posing for photographs on the local beach and in a local pub for a preplanned photo opportunity for her election campaign. So this is something that Labour peer Michael Cashman criticised, calling Duffield “frit or lazy”, which caused Michael Cashman to lose the whip. And apparently this has been a pattern. It had also been found that her constituents had not had their emails answered, with 18,000 left unanswered. Some now question if she even lived in her constituency, and instead now lives in Wales… and her constituents were not happy. In the election, she refused to attend local election hustings, despite the fact that there was an option for a video link… which, you know, doesn’t come as a surprise. She had a substantially-reduced majority in her constituency in the general election.
Flint: So. She couldn’t take scrutiny from her constituency because she was scared that she would be rightly-criticised for her transphobia and inaction. Which is pretty cowardly as well, to be honest. And it wasn’t even neglecting those who voted for her, but those who campaigned for her to get elected. Labour Party members from her constituency stated that she rarely attended local party meetings. When pushed on it by the press, she claimed that she “had gotten yelled at”. However, activists at the time said that no one saw it. This account was from Anne, who, before being expelled from the Labour Party, had written an article stating all of what I’ve just said.
Alyx: So, her anti-trans legacy is undeniable. But if you think this doubling-down is simply out of genuine concern, or dedication to the cause of being anti trans, that would be wrong. All it is, is a thinly-held veil to hide her idiocy and narcissistic unempathetic selfish cowardice, and her blatant criminality and hypocrisy. So now we’ll go over why she is a criminal… and a hypocrite too. Some of you may know that prior to July 2020, Rosie Duffield was found to have breached the lockdown rules. The breach was over her letting a lover who lived in another property, with another person, visit her constituency house and have a five-hour walk, which at this time breached COVID rules. At the time, meeting anyone outside your household was a breach of the rules. And there it is, criminality. She broke COVID rules. At the same time she was Labour’s senior whip and frontbencher in both positions. So with that, she had to resign, leaving her as a disgraced backbencher, who put lives at risk. Ask a couple days before this revelation, Rosie said on Twitter in regards to Dominic Cummings’s rule breaking [Dramatic orchestra music plays, and Alyx affects a posh voice] “I am really struggling to understand what is so difficult about social distancing. It has been clearly explained for months now, and I understand the need for business to stay afloat… but we all have to be responsible adults.” So while she was breaking COVID rules, she was criticising another for doing the same.
Ashleigh: And then we find a month or two later, she jumps on the anti-trans bandwagon. And the facts of her COVID rule-breaking and the hypocrisy she’d shown were quickly forgotten. So she very quickly flung herself onto that bandwagon, seeing all of the attention that it was getting for her. Because it kept her in the press and it still gave her the same amount of attention she had prior to having to resign. If anyone criticised her, they were thrown out of the party. That made her feel like she still had some relevance and power within the party. And in reality, all she formed was a liability and an inconvenience to the leadership… and it was giving her all of the attention. And so we see a month after the whip was pulled from multiple MPs for rebelling on winter fuel payments, she wasn’t happy with being on a list with other MPs getting equal amounts of attention, so she had to wait until they were out of the news cycle so she could dramatically resign. All the while, she didn’t even bother to vote, not even to abstain. So the power of her letter was all bluster and no bite, which is a fitting description of who she is. I think, I think we’ve made our position quite clear!
[Laughter and cheering “byee”]Flint: Yeah, good riddance!
Ashleigh: Yeah. Bye-bye!!
Alyx: When I went through all those details, it really did paint a picture that I didn’t have to put too much imagination into. Because once it’s all lined up, all the things so conveniently put in place, it barely scratches the surface on how bad she was as an MP and how self-serving she was… and if I was a anti-trans activist right now, I’d start seeking assurances as to her loyalty to the cause. ‘Cause it seems at the moment she’s just using it to take advantage.
Ashleigh: Yeah. Yeah. And we’ve barely, really barely, only scratched the surface on how bad she is as a constituency MP. There have been a lot of let’s say, critical, articles about her from the local publications in Canterbury. Where they specifically talk about how she just doesn’t turn up to constituency surgeries and she doesn’t do anything for the people of Canterbury and Whitstable. Looking at all of that, to me it’s like she grabbed onto the anti-trans thing as a way to keep herself relevant.
Flint: Yeah, yeah. And to, I think, still have some value to the party, because… and I say value with air quotation marks that none of you can see because this is audio format.
Ashleigh: Yeah, clanging into place.
Flint: But yeah, it’s because otherwise, she was just going to be giving the party a bad name and wouldn’t even be making social connections that you could argue would be viable if you’re part of a soulless organisation that wishes to sell marginalised groups under the bus to further your own power. But that’s neither here nor there now because she’s gone!
Alyx and Ashleigh: Yes!
Flint: and some other chump is going to step into her place most likely, you know, and by no means is she the only transphobic Labour MP… is my point. By god, was she one of the loudest! So you know, hopefully we can all enjoy things being a slight little bit quiet.
Alyx: Her legacy varies: either a bigot, or a shit MP.
[Laughter]Flint: Yeah! Pick one. You know, or both! Both is good.
Ashleigh: I was about to say, you know, two things can be true at the same time. So what do we think she’s going to do next? What’s her future?
Flint: I think she’s going to be… I think she’s going to do the whole, you know, “misogyny within this country is terrible because my constituents never respected me; come and enjoy my book, come and enjoy my Ted Talk. Look, I’m sat down here with Piers Morgan, he’s right and respectable!” I think it’s going to be all of that shit.
Ashleigh: Yeah, the grift.
Flint: I just said the words “reasonable and respectable” towards… I know it was a bit, but I still feel fucking disgusting!
Alyx: The vomit comes up.
Flint: Yeah, yeah, yeah! No, I can smell it.
Ashleigh: Do you need to wash your mouth?
Flint: I need to commit an immediate act of… protest. [laughter] I was like “where could I take this that’s not gonna… get caught by an algorithm.”
[censorship bleep]Ashleigh: I think both of you… because you both have had largely the same sort of suggestions when we were discussing this when the episode was, you know, being written and stuff: she’s going to write a book about how she is a hero in some way, and about how she should get all the attention and it will be the ‘book tour to grifter’ pipeline all the way, for the next however many years. So fingers crossed, she having resigned, is now starved of the oxygen of publicity… which is a Margaret Thatcher quote so now I feel dirty.
[Laughter]Alyx: I’ve stayed squeaky-clean throughout this and I don’t know how I’m gonna fuck it up now!
Ashleigh: Well, I’m sure you could find a way if you tried. Clearly so clearly and transparently just clout-chasing. She didn’t engage with the local papers at all. She only went with the nationals, choosing the ones that are worthy of her attention and anything that’s a local paper is just… less.
Alyx: And it’s like a significant amount of falling upwards as well, because on her election campaign she was touting herself as a single mother who was a teaching assistant… but then she was a teaching assistant but a union source claimed that she had been disciplined for her persistent lateness. And for the hearing about her persistent lateness, she was late to that hearing, too.
[Laughter]Ashleigh: Actions speak louder than words, truly.
Alyx: Yeah. So she only got the initial candidacy because she was the default next choice, and no one had time to challenge it. And then you really won because the activists for Labour didn’t really know how bad she was going to be at the time, and then wanted a Labour victory in Canterbury for Corbyn. At the time, a lot of these accounts are from Julie Wassmer. I’ve borrowed a lot from her work in the Whitstable Views. It shows how local I’ve been with information.
Ashleigh: Yeah. See that’s how you do it Rosie! You don’t, you know, think it’s nationals only or nothing. No, it’s… you go and find local sources because they’re the people that are attending the constituency surgeries that you’re too scared to go to.
Flint: So she managed to half-ass everything [laughter]. Which is, you know… I’m not going to say an achievement because I don’t want to reward her with anything. But you know, it’s a fact?
Ashleigh: No, definitely not. In a way, it’s impressive?
Alyx: It’s just pathetic. [Laughs]
Ashleigh: It is, yeah. And it’s… I do just want to say Julie Wassmer’s article… or one of them… is titled “”Frit”, “Lazy” or a Cry Bully?” so referencing the Michael Cashman tweet, who said that she was either frit, or lazy. And â”Frit”, “Lazy” or a Cry Bully?” is the name of the article, and it is, devastatingly, takedownish.
Alyx: Definitely. Whitstable Views, check it out everyone. There’s some good material we’ve linked below.
Ashleigh: And some other stuff you should check out is, of course, our website! As I’ve mentioned, yeah. As I’ve mentioned, the fantastic work from Veridian Lakes is available on our website. There’s going to be some more stuff coming. It’s being worked on already. And all of our stuff goes there. And you can obviously find us on le social media. Obviously we’re on Twitter or X or whatever we’re calling it. Facebook, we’re on Patreon, we’re on Blue Sky, we’re on Instagram where all of Alyx’s wonderful photography goes. We’re all over everywhere. So yeah, check us out!
Alyx: And with that, thank you all for listening and [singing in falsetto] goodbyeee!!
Flint: Bye!
Ashleigh: Toodle-pip!
Flint: This episode of what the trans was written, presented and produced by Flint, Ashleigh Talbot, and Alyx Bedwell, edited by Amber Devereux, Oli Morris and Larianne, with music composed by Waritsara Yui Karlberg. Thumbnail by Uppoa Peirs, and transcription performed by Sam Wyman, Rowan B, Rachel Aldred and Georgia Griffiths. We’d also like to give a big thank you to all of our Patreon producers!
Ashleigh, Alyx and Flint: Who are…
Tim Rufo, Maestrum, Danny Gould, Lex Phoenix, Sebastian Sings Soprano, Joe the low-quality enby, Andrea Brooks, Jack Edwards, Emily Roberts, Dulcie, Stefan Blakemore, needles and threads, Flaming Dathne, Dr McGee, Genevieve Dickson, Rachel Harris, Katie Reynolds, Georgia Holden Burnett, Grabilicious, Mx Aphen, Rootminusone, Grey, Elisabeth Anderson, Bernice Roust, Ellen Mellor, Jay Hoskins, Trowan, Ashley, Matty B, Setcab, Jane, Roberto de Prunk, Rose Absolute, Sarah, Sinna, Kiki T, Dee, Skye Kilaen, Eric Widman, Bee, Jude, [French accordian plays] monsieur squirrel, Fergus Evans, anubisajackal, Camina, Brandon Craig, braykthasistim, Sian Phillips, Heidi Rearden, Ezra, Lentil, clara vulliamy, Amelia, Corvina Ravenheart the trans metal DJ from Twitch and VR chat will play St Lucifer for props, Tabitha Jo Cox aka Candy, Fiona Macdonell, Murgatroid, ontologicallyunjust, Stella, Cyndergosa, Rebecca Prentice, [all the crazzee reverb] CRAZZEE RICHARD, danoblivion, Florence Stanley, Helen_, Elle Hollingsworth, Nick Ross, Fiona Punchard, John, a mysterious, anonymous patron (ooooh! [X-Flies theme plays], CB Bailey, Gordon Cameron, Ted Delphos, Kai Luren, Vic Parsons, Patreon User, Vic Kelly, Katherine, Sabrina McVeigh, Cassius Adair, Melissa Brooks, Karaken12, April Heller, Sofie Lewis, Alexandra Lilly, Claire Scott, Ariadne Pena, Lauren O’Nions, Bernard’s Pink Jellybean, Lenos, and Chris Hubley.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you bye!
