We’re back! On our first episode of 2025, Ashleigh, Alyx and Flint go over:
- A look at Alasdair Henderson, a lawyer who has defended anti-trans viewpoints several times in the courts.
- Meta’s new guidelines for fact checking (or the lack thereof).
- The CPS and their new guidelines.
- Our regular romp to Loser’s Corner, featuring Hilary Cass vs. France!
- A deep dive into the protest actions and people involved with resistance to a Nottingham GP’s refusal to provide mandated healthcare.
References
Action Alley
TransKidsDeserveBetter Art Show! Tickets | 22 Feb @ The Queery, Brighton and Hove | FREE | OutSavvy
Nottingham: https://bsky.app/profile/whatthetrans.com/post/3leqpx3hqic26
Lincoln Action Monday 13th: https://www.instagram.com/p/DEhLxeeodfB/
Trans Actual Trans Lives Survey 2024/25 https://bsky.app/profile/transactualuk.bsky.s ocial/post/3lf5w2uq6pz2z
Zoe Hughes
Labour councillor quits party over trans row – BBC News
Alasdair Henderson
Analysis from A Swan Solicitor: (5) A Mere Solicitor: “O -v- P and Q [2024] EWCA Civ 1577 1. Yet another anti-trans legal judgment? Link to the case: www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/u…” — Bluesky
The links between the EHRC, Alliance Defending Freedom & Christian Concern – TransLucent
LCF & ADF Booklet for workplaces: https://archive.is/kxJoN
EHRC Demands to See Trans Policies
Meta
Gemini Recommends LGB Alliance as Good Source on LGBTQ+ Issues
https://bsky.app/profile/equalityamplified.org.uk/post/3letnfzty4s2z
The open letter we signed: Letter to Google concerning the classification of the LGB Alliance — Equality Amplified
PinkNews
Statement on BBC reporting relating to PinkNews, Benjamin Cohen and Anthony James
New CPS Guidelines
Prosecutors publish updated ‘deception as to sex’ guidance | The Crown Prosecution Service
Loser’s Corner
The French review: Cass vs France — Assigned
Some Trans Joy!
New Zealand Review: Puberty blockers a ‘safe, effective and reversible’ form of gender-affirming care, finds review triggered by Westmead Hospital investigation – ABC News
Perverts – Album by Ethel Cain – Apple Music
Transcript
[intro music]Alyx: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of What The Trans?!
Flint: What The Trans?!
Ashleigh: What The Trans. Hi everyone, hope you had a lovely Festivmas holiday season.
Alyx: Hope everyone had a good end of December.
Ashleigh: Hmm, yes, that. The things that happen around then. Hope everyone had a good one. Did you two?
Flint: Yeah, yeah, it was pretty good. Pretty chill vibes to be honest. I had like just a nice little, I had like the big Yule thing on the 21st. That was a fun, solstice meal with like, all of the family. I say all of the family, like all of my friends/family, you know what I mean? Like, chosen family.
Ashleigh: Yeah, yeah.
Flint: And did, like, nice big meal, all of the festivities. And then for the actual, like Christmas day, we just did a much more chilled out thing. We still had some nice scran, but, like honestly, the only thing that was proper Christmassy that we did was watch the Doctor Who Christmas special.
[laughter]Flint: That and my favorite little tradition, my favorite Christmas and winter tradition is a ghost story for Christmas.
Ashleigh: Nice.
Flint: Yeah, like that’s it. It’s dark, it’s bleak, you know, and what else is there to help you through that than, you know, chilling tales round by a fire and that’s kind of my vibe for Christmas. Doing that kind of thing. And then after that –
Alyx: So a bit of Charles Dickens.
Flint: Yeah. Well, yeah, like that’s the biggest example of it. And when you point out that like a Christmas Carol is a ghost story and it’s a horror story. Like I think a lot of people think of it as a Christmas thing first and can kind of forget the genre that it actually plays in.
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Flint: Because we’re so used to, especially with things like the Muppets Christmas Carol, which is the definitive version.
Ashleigh: Absolutely.
Alyx: Yeah. You think it’s not scary, but the final monster at the end, you know, the monster of the future, creeped me out as a kid.
Flint: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Ashleigh: I thought the final monster at the end of the Muppets Christmas Carol was Michael Caine’s singing voice.
[laughter] [Michael Caine singing] Stop and look around you, the glory that you see,is born again each day, don’t let it slip away, how precious life can be.
Ashleigh: Yes, I know what you mean about ghost stories at Christmas. It’s a classic genre that… My favourite Dickens ghost story is The Signal Man. And they did a really good version of it, like the BBC one with Denholm Elliott as the signal man. That’s, God, years and years old now, must have been the 70s or the 80s or something. But it’s just fucking great. So yeah, love The Signal Man. Check it out. That’s Ashleigh’s literature recommendation of the week.
[Schools & Colleges music]Flint: What did you’se get up to for Christmas/New Year’s? Those vibes?
Ashleigh: Similar to yourself, honestly. We did the big meal and exchanging presents with chosen family. The kind of, you know, what we joke is “the wider polycule”.
[laughter]Ashleigh: So, you know, we had everybody around on Yule and we exchanged gifts. We just got a couple of house presents, which is really nice because we’re a proper fucking household now.
Flint: Yeah.
Ashleigh: Christmas was a chill one. We planned the food. We had pies, like three different pies, because mine’s got to be gluten free and Nadia doesn’t eat meat and Lexi didn’t like ale or mushrooms. So we couldn’t just do steak and ale pie. So there was a whole thing. We had three different pies for a good reason.
Flint: I like that though. I like the like, we’re all having the same thing, but fine tuned to our particular taste. It’s beautiful.
Ashleigh: Exactly. And New Year’s was particularly good because we’ve got a roof garden here, but it locks at like half ten. So I had a conversation with one of the guys from the building management place and he did that thing where he told me, “hey, listen, you’re not supposed to do that. But if you were to do that and you were to do this and then do this other thing and then be aware that we wouldn’t have any way of following up on it. We don’t sit and look at the cameras. We wouldn’t be able to find out and you wouldn’t get in trouble for it. But if you were to do it, here’s how you would do it”. Like, okay.
Flint: Love that. Yeah. Man on the inside.
Ashleigh: Definitely. And he was pissing it down. It was such horrible, horrible weather on New Year’s Eve, but we all took our brollies up and a nice wireless speaker and watched the fireworks from the ninth floor at 12 o’clock. Because the entire horizon explodes. And I’ve got my hand in front of me like I’m holding an umbrella right now. Not quite sure why. So that was, it was pretty wet, but it was also pretty great. And then we came back downstairs and you know, had a little bit more to drink and finished off some of the food and then that was that. So everybody went home and we went to bed and I crashed straight out for like nine hours. So… [laughs]
Flint: Nice.
Alyx: Impressive.
Ashleigh: How about you, Alyx?
Alyx: Oh yeah, it’s been a pretty good end of December’s when we call it. We had a month’s worth of leftovers after we fed about 10 people, madly for a whole day. So that was lovely. It was all very chill and as Flint did, I very much enjoyed the Christmas special of Doctor Who.
Ashleigh: Which there may even be an episode of a Patreon exclusive show of your second or third favourite trans news podcast all about the Christmas special. Wouldn’t that be fun? Just before we get into the news then, what did we get? Did we get anything nice? A particular favourite present?
Flint: Oh, um, actually I got two. So one that really was just a massive surprise and I didn’t really expect and I was kind of like, Tina, what are you doing? My partner’s mam got me an air fryer. And I was like, “ahh! What? You sure? Is this a mix up? But my favourite present, the present, I was like, oh, that’s so fucking cool and I love that so much. My partner got me two like book leaflets that are stocked full of UK rave flyers from like 1990 through to like 2000.
Ashleigh: Nice.
Flint: And yeah, it’s like, this is something that I would have not have thought to get for myself. But fuck me is that so not up my street that like I’m like, “oh my god, that’s so cool”. Instantly started info dumping being like,”oh my God!” Like, yeah, it’s great. There’s like one general UK one, then one London one. And then there was another that was… had some slight difference to it. I’m trying to look over to where they are, even though I can’t see them, as if that’ll help. [laughs] But yeah, that was my favourite because I was like, that’s so cool. And yeah…
Ashleigh: That is an extremely “you” present, I must say.
Flint: It is! And nine times out of ten, and I love this, I love the fact that I’m kind of easy to buy for. Because nine times out of ten people will see a fun, weird green trinket and be like, “oh, get it”.
[laughter]Flint: But it means that when someone, when I open up a present or something and I see it’s not something green, I’m immediately like, oh, what have you done, you maverick?
[laughter]Ashleigh: Very good.
Flint: It’s still always really nice. Like I’m never going to be unhappy to see more of my favorite colour. What did youse two get?
Alyx: Mine wasn’t too interesting. Usually we don’t really do too many presents at my place, but I’m always happy to see a large bunch of chocolate to go through for the rest of the month. So I’ve got a shit ton of chocolate I’m still going through. I had – I’ve consumed about a kilogram’s worth of chocolate so far already. And I mean, literally. I’ve had an 850 gram bar, because they no longer do one kilogram bars at Cadbury’s anymore. They only do 850, which is an utter shame. And then I had some chocolate seashells, Lindor, God knows I’ve gone through all and I need to lose weight again. [laughs]
Ashleigh: I mean, that’s what Christmas is about, isn’t it? Putting on the weight that you’ll spend the rest of the following year trying to get rid of just in time for the next Christmas.
Flint: If you want to. And if not, then that’s fine too.
Ashleigh: Well, I’ve got to stay where I am basically because I’m going to be a Bridesmaid in a few months and we’ve got the dresses and so I have to be able to fit into it. So I’m very specifically trying not to overeat.
Flint: Yeah.
Ashleigh: And I am so snacky. I’m a very snacky person; I like strawberry bonbons and these little gluten-free chocolate tiffin things I can get at the co-op. And I need to not do that. I need to not be myself about it so I can still fit into the dress in a few months time. But for Christmas, we just do Secret Santa in my family.
Alyx: Oh!
Flint: That’s cute.
Ashleigh: Yeah, I only have to buy one gift. So I got my mum a jigsaw, which she loves. She loves jigsaws. And I got like an off-brand Lego model of the Titanic, which that’s super on brand for me. Let’s be honest.
Flint: Yeah, love that.
Ashleigh: So a little while ago, Lexi got herself an absolutely pristine condition mini-disc player from the 90s.
Flint: Oh!
Ashleigh: Yes. But Nadia swung into the junk shop in Manchester City Centre and picked up another couple of them quite cheaply. So they were not pristine, but they are functional. And I once, we kind of presented Lexie with one of the other things that she got from there, which is like a unit for a sound system that’s a mini-disc player. So it’s like a mini-disc section of a stereo, basically. So we plug that into the soundbar and after some special brownies over Christmas, people very much enjoyed The Wall on mini-disc.
Flint: Absolutely.
Ashleigh: The live version of The Wall on mini-disc, but also another couple of players. So it wasn’t strictly speaking a Christmas present, but it was something I got around Christmas. And every time I’ve left the house, they’ve been like, oh, what mini-disc am I going to play for myself? And it’s like a nice shiny blue mini-disc player, which is almost identical to the one that was stolen out of my car many years ago. So I’m glad to kind of spiritually reclaim it at least.
Flint: Yeah, yeah.
Ashleigh: But then for a house present, we got like a really fancy food processor unit from Nadia’s parents. And it does everything, this thing. It chops, it’ll do your, you can make chips with one of the units on it. You can do smoothies and stuff. It’s just all these different attachable units onto this one thing.
Flint: Yeah.
Ashleigh: So it takes up quite a lot of space in the kitchen, let’s be honest, but it is also super useful. So yeah, every opportunity we’ve had to try and use the machine. Oh, let’s use the new blender just to prove to ourselves that it’s a good thing to have.
Alyx: Justify its space on the countertop.
Ashleigh: Exactly, exactly. So yes, lovely time, lovely, lovely time all around. But you know what’s not been a lovely time all around?
Alyx: Oh yeah.
Ashleigh: Trans news.
Flint: Yeah.
Ashleigh: Oh, actually, no, before we do the news, there’s some action you can take to fight back. And we’re going to highlight some of that with Action Alley.
Flint: Hell yeah.
Alyx: Yeah.
[Action Alley music]Alyx: So I suppose the first big action we’ve got is a, is in fact, a really cool art show that’s going on on the 22nd of February by Trans Kids Deserve Better. It’s a really cool art show. There’s photography, poetry, film and community. Tickets are free and you can check so much cool stuff out. And it’s a really awesome event in Brighton. So if people are interested in joining up, that’s a really cool event to go to.
Ashleigh: So where is it in Brighton?
Alyx: Yeah, it’s at the Queery at 46 George Street in Brighton. People around Brighton, check that out.
Ashleigh: There’s a story that we’re going to be covering in some depth later on in the show. And it is, of course, the Nottingham GP refusing to prescribe any hormone replacement therapy. That’s, there’s a whole thing. We’ll walk you through the entire thing in the meat. But there are some actions you can take with that, particularly in Nottingham, but also online. So for example, if you’re online, you can give the practice a one star review. You can leave a review on their Facebook page stating their actions, although that might not be available anymore. I seem to remember that you’re not able to do that anymore on their Facebook page because they’ve switched it off somehow. Or you can also leave a review on the NHS’s official website. And that’s all aimed at the Jubilee Park Medical Centre and more on those in a little bit.
Alyx: And as of the time of releasing this episode, if you’re in Lincoln around lunchtime, go to Lincoln Crown Court at 12pm. As there is an emergency noise demo to demonstrate against forcing Zoe Watson to the men’s wing of the HMP Peterborough. She has a GRC and is forced into a men’s prison. She’s been kept in basically what is solitary confinement unjustifiably. And it’s just a really horrific story. So if you want to make a noise about this and you’re in Lincoln head down there, there’s going to be a big demo and make your voices heard.
Ashleigh: Which day is that?
Alyx: It is Monday the 13th of January.
Ashleigh: Oh, so the day of release of the episode. So yes, if you’re able to get to Lincoln today, dear listener, I’m sure they could really use your help. And finally…
Alyx: The great folks at TransActual have a survey that’s now been out. You can tell them about your experiences and they’re going to use the results from this survey to advocate for trans people on a national level with MPs and many other organisations. And there’s also a chance to win a £150 gift voucher if you take part in the survey. So this one’s open for everyone in the UK. So check that out. And alongside that, I think the Meet Us, Hear Us campaign is still around where it gets people to talk to their MPs in person or over the phone. So we’re going to link some more of those details in the description as well. If you want to check those out too.
Ashleigh: Lovely stuff. Thank you very much.
Flint: So it’s now time for the thing that obviously we’re all super excited about and always so ready to get into: the news.
[sound effect: disappointed crowd]Flint: But to start the year off right, let’s talk about someone having some principles.
[sound effect: crowd gasps]Flint: Zoe Hughes is a member of the Exeter City Council and until very recently, did so as a member of the Labour Party. However, Hughes has in fact now quit the Labour Party bit and did so because Labour stance on puberty blockers and young trans people’s healthcare was quote, “a policy I refuse to stand by and accept”. In an article for the BBC News, Hughes said, “As a queer person, I have often felt alone and marginalised within society. However, I historically have felt that at least the Labour Party had my back. They also said that there would be increasing self harm because of the decision on puberty blockers in an already vulnerable and marginalised group”. They added, “We have let the LGBT+ community down and I want no part of it. There is no LGBT without the T for me. It is that simple”. Hughes was elected to the Pennsylvania ward back in May and will now serve the area as an independent. And if like me, you’re only just remembering that there is a Pennsylvania within the UK and not just the US, then me too.
[laughter]Alyx: I didn’t know Labour had that much reach into America.
Ashleigh: Yes, indeed.
Flint: I was like, I was so confused.
Ashleigh: Jeremy Corbyn does quite well in Detroit.
[laughter]Flint: It’s really good to see someone just do, like the obviously, like right thing that we often keep asking and stating of Labour politicians. Like if you disagree, if you want to say that your party is on the side of social justice, then challenge and if you are recognising the same signs that we’re recognising, maybe reconsider your membership.
Alyx: Exactly. So it’s if you can’t push any further because it’s just too shit, then resigning is or resigning is…
Ashleigh: Resigning in protest.
Flint: Yeah, resigning in protest.
Ashleigh: But also, I think it’s also really good to see someone using they/them pronouns in a big city’s council. Right?
Flint: Yes.
Ashleigh: That’s pretty cool as well.
Alyx: No definitely, getting the visibility out there.
Ashleigh: So the BBC article in question did quite a lot of elaborate sentence construction, so it wouldn’t have to use the they/them pronoun.
[groans]Ashleigh: You know how you can construct your sentence a little bit more loquaciously. So you then don’t have to say they or she or he or whatever if you just overwrite your sentences a little bit. So that was definitely happening. I think the they/them pronoun was used like two or three times in the entire article.
Flint: It always makes whatever you’re writing look so much more like AI and like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Flint: Because you’re having to like, use these awkward side steps around. So it just breaks up the flow and you just look a bit more incoherent and a bit more like you don’t know what you’re talking about at best. [laughs] At most you tend to look like a bit of a dick to be honest.
Alyx: Who knows maybe as the BBC writer was writing the article, they then put it through chat GPT to say “make me say they/them as little as possible”. But I’ve just read it and I think it’s literally twice they/them has appeared. And then immediately after they mentioned their reasons for puberty blockers, they just stonewalled with a bunch of “oh but this, this and this is” and then tried to debunk the person, despite that not being their place to debunk stuff.
Ashleigh: Yeah quite. So they kind of brought a load of stuff into the article that the article wasn’t about. You know the article starts talking about puberty blockers and it’s like well that’s kind of beyond the remit of the story. I get it that you’re providing context and I’m sure that’s, you know, that would be if you were to ask the journalist in question they would say “oh well you got to provide the context”. It’s still just like fuck off.
[laughter]Alyx: I think literally half the story was just the context as well, so a lot of that was just unnecessary and…
Ashleigh: So yeah. Zoe Hughes, keep on kicking ass. You love to see it.
Flint: Yeah. keep doing it.
Alyx: And speaking of people’s arses who need to be kicked…
Ashleigh: Yes it’s a decent segue. I have notes.
[laughter]Ashleigh: So from something that’s quite positive and principled to something which is neither of those things. You may know the name Alistair Henderson. He’s a lawyer who’s been involved in several legal cases including Bell v Tavistock and is currently on the board of the EHRC as the joint deputy chair. Over the years he’s made some of his beliefs quite obvious. He’s worked for Christian Concern and up until 2021 he was a vice chair on the board of trustees of the [coughs] “charity” Lawyers Christian Fellowship. Although he resigned from that role not long after Translucent covered his connections to the gender critical movement and the many conflicts of interest involved.
So let’s have a look at that shall we? In case you were wondering what flavour of religious the Lawyer’s Christian Fellowship are, their annual report from August 2020 stated that several members of the LCF had travelled to mainland Europe to attend a symposium hosted by the God’s Damn ADF. Yes the Alliance Defending Freedom, the American Extremist Christian Anti-Trans Anti-Women’s Rights Crusaders for Gilead, who’ve been designated as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Centre. The LCF also promoted the work of the ADF in targeting UK companies to promote extremist “Christian” views in the workplace. The videos for this are still linked from the LCF’s website along with a booklet for the ADF, and we’ll provide those links in the usual place. The booklet also has the LCF logo in the bottom corner so it looks like the two organisations worked on it together.
Now as a trustee, Henderson could not possibly have been unaware that the organisation he was on the board of was engaged in these activities and he was on the board at roughly the same time as being involved in putting the case together for Bell v Tavistock. He has worked intimately with the Alliance Defending Freedom and thanks now to the fucking Tories he’s at the very heart of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which is a little bit like promoting a wolf to his majesty’s sheep inspectorate.
After his promotion to the EHRC board, it looks like it was his idea for the EHRC to stick its oar into the force data versus centre for global development case, the one the gender crits like to say enshrined their beliefs as protected by the Equality Act. Now I bring all of this up because Henderson has been up to his old tricks. There was a case heard at the Court of Appeals back in December where a gender critical mother has gone to court and attempted to stop her trans son from receiving any transition related medical treatment. And you will never guess who represented the mother’s side in the court case.
[drumroll]Ashleigh: Yep it was Henderson. The case referred to as O versus P & Q seems to have torn the family apart. The young person is Q and is now aged 16, meaning Gillick Competence doesn’t apply because that’s for people who are under 16. It looks like his dad has his back and is supportive, which is good to see. We’ll include some links to the details of the case because if we start getting fully into the details of it here we will be here all day. But in a nutshell, the mum wanted to prevent any transition related healthcare because it was quote:
[Emperor’s Theme from Return of the Jedi]Ashleigh: “not in the best interests of the child”. But this hearing ended with the ruling that Q will be assessed by Gender Plus after which the mother may choose to take it back to court, but the court made no ruling on the treatment itself. So the gender critters get to have that argument on another day. Given the links Henderson seems to have, I think we can assume that funding another legal case for the mother is still very much on the table.
Flint: Any time that Henderson or the EHRC comes up I get a shiver down my spine, because it’s just so antithetical that the name inherently these days is a disgusting manipulation. It doesn’t stand for the things that are in the name, the title of the thing, because of the actions of the people that are running it. And I think that with the change in party there hasn’t really been any change in direction or motive that there’s just a change of… honestly it feels like a change in PR campaign. It feels like a change in the way that they’re doing it in terms of they’re trying to be like “no but really it’s nice though it’s fine we’re supporting you, really” instead of previously where it was “get ‘em out! [laughs] No trans people allowed”. You know like it was very like blatant on the nose you’re a danger, whereas now it’s done in this sort of mealy sort of you know sniveling thing.
Ashleigh: “We want to keep people safe”.
Flint: Yeah.
Ashleigh: “It’s all about safety. Got to look after people”. It reminds me of… so with people like Henderson being involved in the Equality and Human Rights Commission, it reminds me of, the Japanese in the Second World War called their empire of nightmares and slavery the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.
Flint: Yeah, you know what it reminds me of every time I hear EHRC? It reminds me of the Ministry of Love. Every time it reminds me of the Ministry of Fucking Love, and like that’s that’s why I get the shiver because it’s just like I immediately think of John Hurt being tortured.
[1984] You know perfectly well what is the matter with you Winston. You’ve known it for years, though you fought against the knowledge. You are mentally deranged. You’ve never tried to cure yourself of it, because you did not choose to. It was a small effort of will which you were not ready to make.Alyx: My brain goes to, you know there’s this Doctor Who episode where the Seventh Doctor with, like the planet where everyone has to be happy and sadness is illegal.
Ashleigh: The Happiness Patrol.
Alyx: The happiness patrol, that’s it.
Ashleigh: Good episode.
[From The Happiness Patrol]Helen A: You look rather unhappy about something.
The Doctor: On the contrary, just admiring your handiwork. This is a worrying thing, wasn’t it?
Helen A: Our thoughts exactly and what about you, are you happy?
The Doctor: Well she’s happy and I’m happy.
Helen A: I’m glad you’re happy, but what are you doing here? You don’t look like locals. In fact you look like killjoys.
The Doctor: We’re visitors, just here for the night.
Ace: What are killjoys?
Helen A: You must be from offworld. Alright, in future stay in the specified tourist zones.
The Doctor: Sorry?
Helen A: You may go.
[clip ends]Alyx: It’s like “yeah, everyone’s equal. Blah blah blah”. Oh God like, and talking of leadership, we were like “oh yeah, we’ll see what Labour does”, and we were like “once we see how if they change the leadership or what happens when contracts expire”. And then contracts expire and then Falkner was renewed so it’s quite clear that Labour’s actions for where equalities is going is just in the same direction as the Tories with no change whatsoever. All they’re doing is trying to pretend they care in reality… well, the happiness patrol
Helen A: your third badge Silas P. 45 killjoys to your credit impressive work I’m very happy.
Silas P: I’m glad that you’re happy mam, but it’s 47 actually.
Helen A: I do the counting thank you Silas P.
Ashleigh: So a couple of things I want to point out as well. Obviously Henderson and people like him are not done yet. They’re gonna carry on doing this stuff. And the playbook is similar to what we’ve seen in the United States, right? Fire up as many court cases as possible, throw it all of the wall and see what sticks.
Flint: Yeah. It’s legal attrition essentially.
Ashleigh: Yeah, good phrasing.
Flint: It basically is, you know, it doesn’t matter if they hit the heart, if they hit the head. The point is you keep getting cut by the shrapnel. And eventually that’s becoming the bigger problem, because you have all of these little cuts and so much more chance of infection to explore the metaphor even further, I’m losing track of it now let’s stop. Yeah um it’s, it’s ghastly.
Alyx: insidious and horrid.
Ashleigh: Yeah. But sticking with the EHRC….
Alyx: Yes. And the desiccated corpse in charge of it, Baroness Falconer has allegedly written to a number of public bodies apparently to check if the Equality Act is being followed correctly. Now this story does come via the Daily Mail so the Bullshit Asymmetry Principle does apply, but it essentially looks like the chair of the EHRC has spent some time writing a letter to 404 organisations to ask them about their policies towards trans people, and in particular trans people going farawas?
Ashleigh: Going farawas.
Flint: Farawas.
Alyx: Going farawas.
[retro video game noise]Alyx: Or something along those lines. As for which organizations have been written to it’s a case of 404 not found, as the Mail elected not to provide any examples. The only other place we found this story was on Mum’s Net, so read into that what you will.
Flint: I’d rather not.
Alyx: According to the Mail quote systronic voice –
Ashleigh: It’s histrionic.
Alyx: Oh so it’s the posh one.
Flint: Sort of like the Skeksis in Dark Crystal.
[spooky organ music]Alyx: Oh yeah, I get you now… “Her comments came after the office for equality and opportunities last week brushed aside fears many public bodies are allowing people to access services based on their self-identified gender rather than their biological sex [coughs]. It said that it found a few examples where the guidance was not being interpreted correctly”. [coughs]
Flint: Oh God, you’re killing yourself.
Alyx: “After members of the public raised concerns about 404 organisations”. So we’re guessing that members of the public in this case refers to members of the public who hate trans people because people who’ve gathered together a list of 400 organizations to complain about have got to be motivated by something.
Ashleigh: Yeah. So I think it’s worth just clarifying, when I was writing this one up I used the phrase Bullshit Asymmetry Principle. It’s also known as Brandolini’s Law and it’s the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than the amount of energy needed to produce the bullshit, right? I’ve heard it referred to as a gish gallop; you just kind of overwhelm your opponent in a discussion with nonsense, with fake news, with non fact, rather than getting their own argument.
Flint: For a perfect example of this any clip of Ben Shapiro will do.
Ashleigh: Yep.
Amber: Yep, no. Not happening. Not putting one in here, no. Sorry.
Flint: And if you want the best clip actually – If you want the best example of gish gallop, look up the trans guy that plays Ben Shapiro’s own game against him and you see the man just caught like a rabbit in headlights of blue pink and white. It’s beautiful.
Ashleigh: Yep. Yeah, very nicely done that one.
Flint: Speaking of people that are way too online, our next one is taking us to the AI filled fields of facebook Mark Zuckerberg…
Mark Zuckerburg: I’m making meats now. Smoking these meats here.
Flint: …has announced new guidelines that do away with independent fact checkers and also explicitly allows for people to refer to queer and trans people as mentally ill. Note here that matter still doesn’t allow disparaging comments about mental illness overall, yet again trans people are singled out as an exception to basic human dignity. Suckerberg, I mean Zuckerberg…
Mark Zuckerberg: Yeah, someone asked me do I smoke meat? I’m the meat chef.
Flint: …has decided this based on the fact that well, everyone seems to be doing it anyway so why bother stopping them, right? No really, if you want the actual quote, it is this:
[Emperor’s Theme]Fint: “we do allow allegations of mental illness or abnormality when based on gender or sexual orientation given political and religious discourse about transgenderism and homosexuality and common non-serious uses of words like weird”. Sorry I had to actually stop myself from throwing up a little bit when I had to read out the word “transgenderism”.
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Flint: So tell me that that doesn’t sound at least a little bit like it’s normalised now when Ineed the engagement more than I need integrity. In general, Fuckerberg, I mean, sorry, Zuckerberg…
[clip] Mark Zuckerberg: Set the charcoal up and you set the wood chips up and then smoking meats, grilling… grilling meats. Good smoky flavour. [clip ends]Flint: …has decided to emulate Elon instead of doing anything that would indicate he has any sort of spine. How do we feel about the new rules that all of our aunts and uncleses are likely going to be completely unaware of?
Ashleigh: Just… as soon as you see the word transgenderism you know there’s like, okay this is not coming from a good place.
Flint: No. No God No. No.
Ashleigh: You know, because if that’s the word you’re using they’ve gotten to you already, kind of thing.
Flint: Yeah. That’s the word that got through all of the people that would have to check over a statement made by someone like Zuckerberg.
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Alyx: Yeah it’s just utterly shit. I mean we really half abandoned our Twitter a while ago exactly for the same reason. Every time I post on Twitter now it makes me want to throw up a little, really, and it’s going to start feeling that way with our instagram which will be a real shame. Because I was really feeling it until now.
Ashleigh: Yeah, yeah. It’s Meta isn’t it? They’ve poisoned themselves and demonstrated that it’s probably literally not going to be particularly safe to exist as a trans person on the biggest social media networking site in the world. Which is just mind boggling to me.
Alyx: yeah it’s just kind of cowardly how they decided to just give up some sense of integrity – Well they didn’t have any integrity so that didn’t really make an –
Ashleigh: Well, kind of. But I don’t think it’s giving up. I think it’s like stepping up. It’s saying to, you know, incoming daddy Trump “oh we’re on your side really”.
Flint: It is. That’s what it is. He’s basically going “please Mr President, don’t be mean to me”.
Ashleigh: So half related to this story, it’s become known that Google and its AI program Gemini is recommending the LGB Alliance to people as a trusted source for queer issues. Obviously that’s absolutely heinous and Equality Amplified have written an open letter which we at What The Trans?! have signed while also asking the demands made are stronger. But we are happy to provide support to any efforts to have the LGBA and its ilk prevented from harming people, and we will of course provide a link to the letter in the description.
Alyx: I think the main bit for [unclear] is they were really the only people really putting an effort into fight this, from what I saw about this specific issue. And we were like if someone’s doing something we’ll tag along with it because it’s something. And…
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Alyx: I think part of the demand was they said “we would like Google to reevaluate the classification that Gemini has given it” rather than saying we would like the LGB Alliance to be reclassified as not reliable. It’s sort of like this.
Flint: Yeah. Yeah, which is appropriate.
Alyx: Which is sort of what I was sort of hoping for but quite frankly it’s a move towards that and we can only just encourage something.
Ashleigh: Yeah. I mean it’s got to start somewhere, right?
Alyx: Yeah. And it seems they’ve been doing some good work and they’re very keen to engage, so gotta do something. It’s good work.
Flint: Yeah yeah absolutely.
Alyx: Speaking of news sources: Now in the last episode we had covered the recent story from the BBC regarding the conduct of Benjamin Cohen and Anthony James from Pink News. We’ve recently seen that they’ve now uploaded a statement on the story, so we will catch you up on what they said: “It is with regret that we have been forced to issue this statement following serious allegations first published by the BBC. In August we made a criminal complaint to the police in relation to alleged offenses committed against us that are connected with these recent reports. As we told the BBC prior to its initial broadcast, a police investigation was ongoing and we were advised not to make a comment.
We are now aware that devices have been seized with forensic investigations continuing. Despite the BBC being aware of the police investigation, it chose to broadcast and misled the public about our response. We have consulted lawyers in respect of these false, inconsistent and malicious allegations. We had explained to the BBC that the stage of the police investigation meant it was not possible for us to comment on the specific allegations, even though they were strenuously denied. The BBC disregarded the police investigation and then misled its audience about our response. The impact of the BBC’s reporting on our family life has been significant, has caused extremely serious harm to us, Pink News and our colleagues”. Some statement.
Flint: They seem to essentially be trying to say that these allegations are criminally untrue.
Ashleigh: Yeah. That’s my read on it as well. Particularly if devices have been seized.
Flint: Yeah. If you’re talking about devices and you’re talking about, you know, allegations of things – it’s giving malicious communications, but I don’t know. It’s hard to parse.
Alyx: Yeah, sometimes there’s going to be a lot more information on this.
Ashleigh: Yeah. Like, so one party seems to be saying one thing, like the BBC have said one thing and Pink News have strenuously denied it. Categorically. So we can’t possibly know the truth at this stage.
Flint: Yeah.
Ashleigh: And obviously you kind of hope that what the BBC have gotten it wrong or something, because Pink News is like the biggest LGBT news organization in the world. And you don’t want it to be run by people who exhibit the kind of conduct that they’ve been accused of. You don’t want that to be the case.
Flint: Yes, absolutely. But you know, it’s very – it’s difficult when we’re in this kind of position of, you know, having to sort of awkwardly sit and wait.
Ashleigh: Yes. Yes.
Flint: Because we can’t know more. It’s now very much tied up into a whole other kind of tangle. Well until there is stuff figured out with whatever investigations or there’s, you know, any movements on any kind of legal action from either party to either side. It’s something that we can’t really dig into because it’s all under the lock and key of an investigation.
Alyx: No definitely. I suppose if the investigation stuff come against – go against the Pink News and it doesn’t go in their favour, it’s going to be curious to see what happens to Pink News afterwards. Because they’ve got Anthony James and all that attached to that. And goodness knows whether they’ll be able to continue in the future or what kind of leadership there’s in the future as well.
Ashleigh: All right. So this next one is not great. You may have heard that there have been new prosecution guidelines published, specifically about a thing they now call “deception as to sex”. There’s a lot of hay been made about this and I’m sure we’ll come back to it in the coming weeks, but it looks like the crown prosecution service has changed these particular guidelines about this offense from deception as to gender to deception as to sex, which is nice and bio essentialist of them.
Unfortunately, dangerously even, following a case known as Lawrence v R, the CPS has decided that if a trans person doesn’t disclose their birth sex to their sexual partner, that may be enough to amount to deception, which would vitiate consent. Vitiate is a legal term which means to destroy or impair the legal validity of. As Jess O’Thompson put it on Blue Sky, quote: “this means for example a trans woman who lives as a woman, has a GRC and who has been stealth for decades, may be required to disclose her sex as recorded at birth to every sexual partner else risk being found guilty of a criminal sexual offense. This also doesn’t specifically refer to any sexual act, which means trans people should apparently be required to disclose their birth gender before even so much as a first kiss”.
So this is pretty bad. But this is not a draft of new legislation or anything. This is guidance; it’s not necessarily indicative of the law itself. There are a lot of questions surrounding it. Even after the guidance has been published there’s some very valid criticism and questions like does it relate to gender identity or gender history, which can be two different things, and does it have to be some kind of active deception or is simple non-disclosure enough and blah blah blah and all sorts of other things. There’s a couple of threads on Blue Sky from people like Jess O’Thompson and professor Alex Sharp with some good criticism.
You’ll also no doubt be astounded to hear that the CPS has done this after numerous submissions from anti-trans activists as part of a consultation, following a legal case called McNally v R, where a girl who was apparently not trans and didn’t identify as such nevertheless pretended to be a boy. In that case the court specifically discussed the offense in terms of deception as to gender and not as birth sex. But now following those anti-trans submissions, this has now become deception as to sex specifically within the guidelines.
We’ll include a selection of the links in the usual place and I do recommend looking at those threads I’ve mentioned. And the page where the CPS talks about its methodology and demonstrates conclusively that their entire framing has been led from an anti-trans position. We have the receipts. The CPS published them. so yeah it’s bad but it’s not an immediate cataclysm. This is guidance, and it’s not been tested yet.
Flint: Absolutely. And that’s the really key core important thing. But it’s concerning, and so it’s something obviously we need to know as soon as possible. But don’t don’t feel that this is the kind of boot that we are living under just yet. [laughs]
Alyx: Yeah. There’s still plenty of time to change it as well. It’s not laid down in law per se, it’s guidance. It’s not some legislation that’s been brought in, so there’s still room for change. So I’m sure there’s probably some people who probably would be – who probably should jump on this. Which I presume they are. It’s just having the right avenues to do it.
Ashleigh: Yeah, and it just, it does confuse me, the fact that… so it’s the McNally case that’s kind of triggered this happening, which did not involve a trans person.
Flint: No, yeah.
Ashleigh: You know, I don’t know what McNally’s endgame was or what the goal was, in terms of pretending to be a boy. But they’re apparently not trans, and yet for some reason that’s ended up as some guidance which is specifically talking seemingly about trans people.
Flint: Yeah. They really can’t seem to distinguish between someone who is trans, who just exists and someone playing around with gender in some way, duplicitous or not, right? Like there’s a very big difference between those things.
Alyx: For me it demonstrates that they can’t make changes to – the anti-trans wankers can’t make changes through law, they’ve tried it through the Conservatives and they’ve failed. All they can do is insidious crap where they have to go through consultations and law fair in order to get their way. And so far in the UK they haven’t made any legislative stuff, except well, except for the puberty blocker ban which wasn’t even something legislative. It’s through formal procedures in the, you know, inside government departments.
Ashleigh: That’s not been voted on, yeah. Anyway, don’t don’t despair about it, because there’s a lot of different ways it can be poked full of holes and challenged.
Flint: Yes.
Ashleigh: And people are already doing that. People are already doing that work, so…
Flint: Hope is not lost yet. And speaking of losses…
[singing: Loser’s Corner]Flint: As part of our Christmas catch-up, in this edition we have two stories for Losers Corner, each shining a spotlight on when the anti-trans movement steps on its own rake.
[Sideshow Bob stepping on a rake]Flint: Both stories focus on people who were nominated for Villain Of The Year. Hate to see consistency in our least favorite people, but at least it keeps ‘em predictable, eh? So first up we have the results of an inquiry that you actually already know about. It’s that one that was previously just mentioned, with the 404. Yeah. So the results are in Losers Corner my friends. Yes I know, I know, I know.
So this is the inquiry that a former Minister of Inequality – I do apologise, I mean Equality, Kemi Badenoch launched into providers not operating single sex spaces appropriately. After all the hubbub of the moral panic focusing on codes of practice, she, as we’ve already spoken of, called for any examples of inappropriate guidelines to be sent into the inquiry to assess how big of a problem this is. And wouldn’t you know it turned out to be a complete non-issue.
[Lago the parrot from Aladdin (Gilbert Gotfried)] That’s an incredible – I think I’m gonna have a heart attack and die from not surprised.Flint: 90% of all of the examples of those 404, 90% that were given in were completely appropriate. So to put that into perspective, transphobes en masse sent in submissions of what they thought were unjust applications and interpretations of the Equality Act, alongside their transphobic views, and in return got told that they were the ones misinterpreting it at a rate that would get you a first if it were a degree. Thank fuck it is not, though. Out of that other 10% there were various ways in which the law was apparently misinterpreted, which is something that they are going to be addressing, figuring out. They didn’t really give full specifics, because it’s quite a short page that has this information on it. But be warned, this isn’t as clear a slam dunk as you may think. At the bottom of these results it is said, quote:
[Emperor’s Theme]Flint: “Moving forward we will explore the best ways in which we can give providers assurance about the rights afforded by the act and how to lawfully apply the exceptions, including through guidance”. Now that sounds like we’re gonna follow the book and we’re gonna make sure that, you know, these ones that are out of line are brought in line. That sounds chill, but I don’t know, I see far too much room for that “how to lawfully apply the exceptions including through guidance”, that just gives me way too much like opening the gates to, you know, what guidance? What guidance updates are you gonna do? All of that stuff, right. So we’ll see.
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Flint: So whilst this was a fun “actually no babes, it’s you”
[unclear sound clip]Flint: Don’t let it convince you that the tide is turning just yet. It will though in time, I truly believe at least. You know, not everywhere it’s capitulating to the conniving cranks, including just over the channel. Let’s go see, and we’re gonna get some fun french music in there.
[Fun French music]Alyx: So on the 17th of November the French Society of Pediatric Endocrinology and Diebetology commissioned its own version of the Cass Review.
Ashleigh: Oh crap I broke the bell! Shit.
Alyx: Now we were referred to the society’s SFEDP and now we will borrow from the analysis from Assigned Media, which does some fantastic work, and we’ll link the analysis in the description. So the loser is Hilary Cass and this time she’s called a fucking idiot by France.
[John Cleese as French knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail] You don’t frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottom, sons of a silly person.Flint: Zoot alors!
Alyx: Essentially it recommends the opposite of anything the Cass Review says and stands in stark, stark contrast with it. It also duplicates the same results as the German review of it. They show that gender affirming care is the way forward and that puberty blockers should be used. And on the topic of social transitioning, the French review completely ignores debunked research from Kenneth Zuka, the stupid fuka who pushed suppression of the review, instead offers information on how to legally change names, tucking, binding and more. It doesn’t even bork and freak out at the idea of giving trans kids HRT. HRT. It even says the international consensus is that if a kid wants it, you can provide them with HRT. A complete dream compared to the nightmare that Cass the pain in the ass throws down our throats.
[John Cleese again] Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.Alyx: Oh my God I want to live in France.
Ashleigh: Yeah, honestly.
Flint: It’s just, this is the thing, right? This is a reasonable, well adjusted view to have. This is how it just should be done, right? It’s just like I feel like it’s really good to see something that follows like basic human decency.
Ashleigh: Yes.
Flint: And actually follows the science, follows the known wishes of the patients involved, you know? It’s… yeah. Fuckin’ A. Nice one. Can we have it here please? [laughs]
Ashleigh: Pretty much. Like, can the EU not like, invade?
Flint: Honestly
Ashleigh: Damn you, English pig dogs. We will force you to have our wine and cheese.
Alyx: Oh how thoughtful.
Flint: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ashleigh: Alright, so when I was reading the details of this, again, you know, massive shout out to Assigned Media.
Flint: Yes, thank you.
Ashleigh: It was just – it just felt like such a glorious takedown, because it felt like they were subtweeting Cass every step of the way. And there was one point where it directly rebuked a lot of her conclusions.
Flint: Yeah. I mean, as it should, because it’s a massive medical scandal.
Ashleigh: Yep.
Flint: Like, it’s not – it kind of even feels inappropriate to call it a review at this point. It wasn’t a review, it was a lancing of our rights and our healthcare.
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Flint: And it’s, you know, it’s – the more that you see any bit of the medical industry around the world go “hold on a fucking second, you’re saying what?” like, every single time that happens it just further cements how out of fucking line Cass and whoever they prop up, in whatever position over our existence, are. Like as long as they have this mentality they are dangerous in the effects that they will have on us. And that’s a problem. It’s a big fucking problem.
Alyx: It shows how much of an outlier she is compared to international consensus and like we’ve got New Zealand recently said puberty blockers should still be used as well.
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Flint: Yes.
Alyx: French, Germans anyone else with a brain cell. There was a mention of Cass sounding like a rabid conspiracy theorist when I saw what Cass, I mean what Assigned Media thought of it as well.
Flint: Valid.
Ashleigh: Yeah, pretty much. Like in standing next to this French one, Cass is shredded, frankly. And you’re right, it wasn’t a review, it was a screw job. Start to finish. So maybe we should just start calling it that. Every time we refer to it on the show we’ll call it the Cass Screw Job or the Cass Scandal.
Flint: Maybe, maybe. It feels more appropriate. Especially now we’ve got like, well, you know, if you want to see what a non-scandal looks like, here’s this.
Ashleigh: Yeah, here’s this nice example from really very, very close by.
Alyx: Literally next door.
Flint: And on the note of medical fuckery, if you want to put it that way…
Ashleigh: Yes.
Flint: Hope there’s not any vegetarians in the house, we’re about to get into the meat.
[laughter] [Pink Floyd’s The Wall] How can you have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat?Ashleigh: So as some of you might have heard back in episode 116, we covered a story from TransActual that over 200 trans people had been denied their prescriptions from their gender identity clinics. Unfortunately, the story is still ongoing. Some trans people are not getting the prescribed hormones and the healthcare that they need, and all because their GP has decided to refuse to prescribe them the hormones the gender identity clinics say that they need.
But on the 31st of December there was an interesting development. Patients at a GP in Nottingham decided to make a noise about their healthcare being stopped. And with 50 people outside of the GP’s office, they protested at their care being halted. Now we spoke to the organisers of the protest and to the patients whose healthcare had been halted to hear more from them about the protest and what has happened to their care. So let’s start off with an interview with the representative of Nottingham Against Transphobia.
Alyx: Alright, so I’m with Anna, she/her from Nottingham Against Transphobia. It’s great to have you on. Thank you for coming on.
Anna: Don’t mention it.
Ashleigh: We don’t need to belabour the point about why you’re here. How was it you found out about the patients who are being denied their HRT?
Anna: It came to us through two of the patients who were directly affected, Samantha and Alex, who, you know, their names have been printed quite a couple of times now. They’ve been really good, you know, for two just normal people. But I mean, like, people who are used to talking to the press and that sort of thing. They’ve done it a lot and they’ve been very articulate and good about it.
Alyx: No, definitely. And to also be able to reach out and speak to an organisation to organise something together, like the protest for the HRT outside their GP. And with that protest, what message did you want to send?
Anna: So really, the way I see it is they are putting marginalised people’s health in danger for profit. And I don’t really think that’s acceptable. You know, they keep talking about how much they’re being commissioned or whatever. In terms of medical care, it’s not that much. But, you know, that’s not really the point. I think, you know, with GPs earning about 90 grand, you could probably take a reasonable fee to provide healthcare. And I think they only paid like £50 a year. But all they really have to do is keep a repeating prescription going and schedule blood tests every three months. Like, it’s not a lot of work, because all the work is done by the GRCs.
Ashleigh: How do you think the protests went?
Anna: Oh, very well, actually. We went from getting local coverage to national coverage pretty much immediately. And even now I’m getting requests for interviews and stuff like that. So we definitely got the word out there, the nationals, Pink News, Abigail Thorn herself have picked up this issue now. And the more attention this issue gets, I think the more likely we are to see services resumed.
Alyx: Yeah, it’s been a pretty great reception that’s been picked up everywhere. And I suppose the one person who really does need to pick up the message from these protests is the GP. And have you had much of a reaction back from the GP?
Anna: The GP’s stance at the minute is it’s not their problem, basically. And there are people debating that within the NHS. So, yeah, they were commissioned by the IBC to do these services. But when pushed, the IBC have said they can’t do anything about it for six months now. Services are due to end in three months. So that’s not the IBC saying this isn’t our problem. That’s them saying we can’t do it, which could mean they don’t have the resources or whatever. So not an ideal standing. But we also found, like, decisions like this should go before an ethics panel to make sure they aren’t unfairly targeting a marginalized group, which, just banning the medication from transgender people in particular, you would think if it did go through the review as it was supposed to, they probably would have been stopped from taking this action.
Alyx: You said about, they weren’t going to review it for six months, but then there was also the service the contract ends in about three months. Does that mean like there’s not going to be any care full stop in that amount of time?
Anna: I am hoping that given the amount of press that this has gotten already, and is still getting, eventually Jubilee Park will just be embarrassed out of doing this. However, at this time, it seems like transgender patients will go without any care for three months minimum.
Ashleigh: Sorry, that just has left me a little bit speechless. Because there’s no legitimate justification for what they’ve done. It is just transphobia. And it’s so obvious that that’s what it is. And you wonder where it’s come from and who’s kind of influencing those decisions. And you know, what, what sort of message boards they hang out on, for example. So have the local authorities reacted to this at all like the council and stuff?
Anna: There’s been no official statement from the council, but I have been talking to my contacts every now and again. The health group within the local council believes this, like, they may legally be allowed to do this. She didn’t really expand on that.
Ashleigh: Helpful.
Anna: And I would have thought for, you know, a good number of reasons, including the Equalities Act, because for example, services like ADHD care, or eating disorder care have pretty much the same contracts. So to just say they’re removing services for trans patients in particular seems like an act of prejudice. However, the council is still debating it essentially. And haven’t come down strongly one way or another.
Alyx: Sounds like it would be ripe for a legal case as well, wouldn’t it?
Anna: It’s very surprising to me to not have a uniform response of no, they can’t do this. It would seem to be that particularly just targeting the marginalized group should be illegal.
Ashleigh: Yeah. You’d kinda hope.
Alyx: I suppose you’ve just got to try, and our listeners have probably got to try our best to try and see how we can help fight this bullshit from the GPs and such. And we were wondering what our listeners could do to help support Nottingham Against Transphobia and Alex and Samantha to fight this decision.
Anna: It is a tricky one because you’d have thought with the amount of press this has got, that would be enough to dissuade Jubilee Park, but it hasn’t been so far. One thing we’re suggesting people do is start handing out the GP one-star reviews on places like Google Maps, on the NHS’s reviews site. They’ve turned off their Facebook reviews now because they were so bad. And correct. So that’s one thing your listeners can do. Another thing is just to follow Nottingham Against Transphobia on Facebook and Instagram because if we do decide more action is needed, that’s the first place people will find out about it.
Alyx: We’ll make sure to share any extra details on ways our audience can fight and fight this.
Anna: If you go onto either of our social media it has instructions on how to leave negative reviews where people can warn other people about discriminatory practices by this GP. If it was me and I had a choice of two GPs and one of them was removing necessary medical care from a marginalised group, I’d probably pick the other one.
Ashleigh: Pretty straightforward honestly, it wasn’t the longest interview we’ve ever done was it Alex?
Alyx: I think we’re still getting into the swing of things from our like week and a half off. It was a nice – it was an easy way to dip your toes back in again.
Ashleigh: It was nice to be seen as not hostile because from what she was saying about how every single interview that she’s done about this has been with a hostile interviewer who’s, you know, demanding that she explain what a woman is.
Flint: Yeah, challenging.
Ashleigh: Yeah, exactly.
Alyx: Not being an arsehole.
Ashleigh: It’s really that simple, isn’t it?
Flint: Honestly, yeah.
Ashleigh: But yes, that was a nice little interview. And now let’s move on to talking to the actual patients themselves, which you two did this interview, didn’t you?
Flint: Yes, and it was actually full with a lot more revelations and details than we first anticipated, safe to say.
Alyx: We’re with Alex and Samantha, who are patients of the clinic up in Nottinghamshire. How are you both?
Samathy: Tired.
Alex: Exhausted from dealing with this all over Christmas and New Year and continuing in 2025.
Samathy: Yeah, stressed, anxious, all the bad feelings really.
Alyx: I suppose we’ve been checking with other news outlets about this whole story with the GPs care and such, and them withdrawing your much needed healthcare. How did you find out about the care being withdrawn?
Alex: So this has been going on since the end of November when I had a gender clinic appointment where I knew that they were going to suggest I switched medication. So I went to my GP and said, like I obviously had heard news about this happening in other parts of the country and I’d seen what TransActual was doing and all the advice that they were giving.
So I went to my GP and said, look, these were my blood test results. I’ve got an appointment tomorrow. They’re going to recommend that I change. Will you support me to change? And they said yes. And then I had the gender clinic appointment the next day and they sent the recommendation and they held onto it for three weeks telling me that they weren’t sure if they could do that.
Samantha: So that was the GP surgery you held on to that recommendation from the clinic.
Alex: And then the week before Christmas, I got a phone call from the practice manager informing me that they wouldn’t be switching my medication and they would be announcing to all their trans patients that they won’t be continuing healthcare. And then that got added to our records. We let everyone that we knew know, but some patients will only have just found out because of Christmas post. If they’re not checking their online records, they won’t have, well, hopefully they won’t have seen over Christmas and they would have been able to enjoy their Christmas. Those letters have now arrived. So everyone who is a patient of that practice should now be aware that they won’t be getting any care after April.
Flint: So how long had you been receiving like this care for like either of you or both of you with like trans supportive health care from there?
Alex: I have been with them on hormones for three years.
Samantha: I have been on HRT with the practice for four years. So since I joined the practice, essentially, I’ve been on HRT with them. And I was discharged from the gender clinic two years ago. So until now, yeah, on hormones with no problems at all.
Flint: So what was the standard of care like before this? Did you feel like you had a pretty good relationship with them? Did you feel treated respectfully?
Samantha: It’s a GP surgery. They treated me for stuff when I saw them, but generally, I hadn’t seen any doctors at all about my trans healthcare. I was being prescribed stuff as per Nottingham Gender Clinic’s recommendation. When I was discharged, there was no issue continuing my treatment. So it’s doctor’s surgery who provided medical care, and it was fine. They just did their job. And that’s all I can really expect.
Alex: For me, I approached them about doing private shared care, and they agreed to do that. So they started me on hormones after a private diagnosis. I mean, the comments were made about the cost, but they did it. Then the NHS took over after I got seen by a genetic clinic, and that was fine. Earlier this year, they supported me with just, like a recommendation for chest masculinization surgery. So generally speaking, until this, personally, it’s, you know, it’s been alright.
Alyx: I think it has almost seemed like a complete heel change for no reason whatsoever, by the looks of it.
Flint: Yeah, compared to the stories that we’ve often heard about, the way that GP officers can sometimes be regarding trans health care, I’ve got my own experiences there. It really does feel like quite a sudden 180. This feels like an obvious question, but how did you feel about the care being withdrawn?
Alex: Honestly, it was almost a month where they were making a decision, as it were, where they told me that they weren’t sure if they were going to do it, and then we were waiting for this final decision. And until that phone call, I was still convinced that it would all get sorted out. Because how could you do that to people? How could you possibly justify it?
So yeah, pretty shocked, despite the fact that I had almost a month to expect it. Yeah, completely shocked. And it’s been incredibly stressful trying to work out what to do, and obviously we’re having to submit complaints now. And the protests that got organized and on top of this working out, like just being off at Christmas. Yeah.
Samantha: Yeah, pretty devastated really, for me. Having received problem-free gender affirming care from the practice for years, and being discharged from the gender clinic. So unlike Lex, I don’t have a regular appointment. I’m not having six monthly appointments with the gender clinic to talk about my care because it’s fine. I’m on a stable treatment. I don’t need to talk to them. So to hear from my GP “we’re cutting you off. We’re not giving you any gender affirming treatment after April. Go sort it out yourself”.
It has been pretty awful, especially since, for me, I’m on a testosterone blocking injection, regularly every three months, which if it stops, I’m particularly concerned about experiencing the reversal of some of the feminizing effects of blocking testosterone and being on estrogen. So not getting that is really, really quite upsetting. I’ve worked, put in all this effort for so many years to get to where I am and to be really, really, really happy with myself and with the gender affirming medical pathway that I’ve chosen to follow. And then to be told “yeah, so if you can’t get access to this medication, you might be experiencing detransition. Sucks to be you”.
You know, and this whole completely handing off of responsibility to the gender clinic who can’t provide prescriptions and definitely can’t administer three monthly injections for their thousands of patients, which across the country, might I add, like their thousands of patients who don’t just hail from, you know, 20 minutes up the road in a different part of Nottingham. You know, traveling in. So, yeah.
I suffer from anxiety anyway. And this has been absolutely horrendous. Like, you know, we say it’s ruined our holiday season, but it really has though. We have spent most days of our holiday periods writing complaints and trying to get people to listen, liaising with various parts of the NHS. But unable to really affect the change that the GP practice would like to happen, because we are just patients, we are not, we don’t write, we don’t write funding documents, we don’t have any money to move around. We can’t do anything apart from kick up a fuss.
Flint: Bringing up the notion of kicking up a fuss, you’re here, we’re here talking because this has gotten to the point of a protest. How did you get to the decision of that? How did the idea of that come up? How did you get the ball moving, I guess?
Alex: Like I said, as soon as we were informed that this was going to happen, we let the trans community in Nottingham know that, like, we didn’t, we have no idea how many patients there are at Jubilee Park, how many people this was going to affect, and how widespread it was going to be. Whether other members of the same PCN would start restricting healthcare, whether other PCNs would start doing this. So we let the trans community in Nottingham know, and obviously Anna and Sophie from Nottingham Against Transphobia saw it, and they took up the fight.
It’s been amazing to see the support for us, and I think it’s really important, like you said, it hasn’t, it doesn’t feel like there has been much in the way of resistance and protest about this happening across the country, because like I said, Nottingham is by no means the first, it won’t be the last place to be doing this. Yeah, and the protest was a huge success, like so many, like for New Year’s Eve, with so little notice in a suburb of Nottingham, where everyone had to get a bus out to join us, it was, yeah, fantastic.
Samathy: So we probably saw around 50 people standing outside our GP practice on New Year’s Eve, Nottingham Against Transphobia, and Lex and I collaborated on writing a press release, which we put out to a number of different places, including the Nottingham Post, which is the local newspaper, who sent the journalist, and really from there, the, you know, it’s kind of snowballed to people who are interested, people really want to hear from us, and Nottingham Against Transphobia have been helping a huge amount to help us with this collective action, you know, helping us get in touch with other patients at the practice, as well as helping us talk to press and helping us with other resources, and so they’ve been absolutely fantastic.
Alyx: Yeah, it’s just been everywhere all of a sudden there. Have you heard much from GPs yourself after all this has happened, or are they still remaining silent?
Samantha: Yeah, I’ll go first with my point, which is no, which seems bad. Like I found out about this, because a letter appeared on my online records, which I looked at and went, what? And I have heard nothing, I’ve had no contact with the doctor to talk about my health care and how this affects my health at all. I’ve not been given the opportunity to speak to anyone. We’ve seen the press release that the park, the Jubilee Park has put out, which is essentially the same as the letters that we received, it doesn’t contain any further information, and barely contains any advice for patients other than it’s the gender clinics problem, go talk to them, because apparently they can do something which they can’t. And that’s the only advice from, you know, my doctors about the cessation of my healthcare without my consent.
Alex: But it’s now been 38 days since the gender clinic recommended a change in medication, and the GP has not informed them yet that they won’t be doing it.
Flint: This is atrocious!
Alex: So they’ve told me that it’s the gender clinic’s responsibility, and they won’t be starting me on, it’s basically a switch from gel from testosterone gel to testosterone injections, that’s what I’m trying to get. They’ve told me that they won’t start the injections that the gender clinic needs to start the injections. But they haven’t informed the gender clinic that they won’t start the injections yet.
I did make an appointment, a non-urgent appointment, just before Christmas after the gender clinic wrote a second letter asking that they, you know, provide these injections for this three month grace period, because I can’t get anything immediately, even if the gender clinic were going to magically take over everyone’s care, which I don’t see happening. I still, I need a change in medication now.
Flint: Even DIY pathways wouldn’t be quick enough.
Alex: Exactly, like there’s no other way for me to get it other than from my GP. So I made an appointment, and it did not go well. But it culminated in the doctor involved making, drawing a comparison between transgender people getting healthcare from their GP and shoplifting.
Flint: Oh, oh, could you elaborate on that a little bit if you don’t mind?
Alex: Exactly that, like they…
Flint: As in it’s thievery to ask for HRT from your GP?
Alex: Yes, it was compared, you wouldn’t go into John Lewis and shoplift was the statement made, and this is, it’s basically the same thing.
Flint: That’s disgusting and egregious, especially considering both of you are asking for very standard, normal, non-complicated parts of very, like you aren’t asking for big, complicated, outside of the norm kind of treatments. This is very, very bog standard cookie cutter kind of things. This should be handled so nonchalantly. That comment is wild.
Alyx: And healthcare that they were providing previously that they decided no, we’re not. And then saying all the sudden, the care that they’re providing is suddenly shoplifting.
Alex: Yep. Now it’s a problem.
Alyx: Fucking hell.
Flint. Yeah, yeah.
Samantha: There is a separate complaint in about that appointment specifically, but yeah. Yeah.
Alyx: So they get some kind of repercussions from that. And on the point of prescriptions, it sounds like it’s going to be until April. And then you’re not going to be able to have care for about three months after that.
Samantha: So Lex’s situation is slightly different because they need to change medication from a preparation which is not working now. But for other patients like me, the GP practices have said that they will be continuing prescriptions for three months only. This three months is apparently considered to be an acceptable grace period for patients to find another place to find their medication. And like I said, the GP practices have just said, go talk to the gender clinic.
They need to fix this for you. So after April, that’s it. No gender affirming healthcare for patients who are either private. So no shared care at all, which they weren’t they would they were doing anyway, they weren’t doing shared care with private gender specialists. But they’re also now, yeah, after three months, ceasing any gender affirming care for patients with NHS gender clinics.
Flint: That’s a very arbitrary number that doesn’t – isn’t respective of the kind of wait times you would have to get another appointment about these kinds of things anyway.
Samantha: Exactly. I was told by the gender clinic that the wait for a follow up appointment with them, it would likely be longer than three months anyway. So yeah, just to see the gender clinic, who again, I remind you cannot issue prescriptions or solve this problem for me. It would likely take longer than three months just to see them. And you know, and talk to them about this problem.
However, we have talked to the gender clinic outside of an appointment with a medical clinician situation, and they are being super duper helpful within the capacity they have to help us. But in three months time, yeah, I’m not going to be able to access those prescriptions, nor any other patients who might be affected at the GP practice.
Alex: You picked up your prescription yesterday, which was more stress.
Samantha: Yes, we heard down the grapevine that patients at Jubilee Park were picking up their regular prescriptions, and finding that they were suddenly due a medication review, which meant picking up my prescription and Lex’s prescription yesterday, terrifying. I was really, really nervous. My heart was racing, went to pick it up from the pharmacy, and low and behold, both of our medications are up for medication review.
I know that mine was not due until March, because I recently asked at the practice before this whole situation happened. And yet, suddenly, due a review. So, yeah, don’t know what that’s going to be like. But it seems that they’re already making moves to remove that access to care, or at least make it more challenging with more hoops to jump through.
Flint: Hearing all of this fully laid out, it seems incredibly deliberate. Do you think that this is just people following orders, so to speak, or do you feel this is more of an ideologically driven situation?
Samantha: I think, well, we are fairly confident that this situation has arose as part of the British Medical Association’s collective action, which is an encouragement from the BMA for GP practices to refuse to do anything that they are not explicitly commissioned to do and funded to do. So that includes things like private shared care, and a lot of other bits and bobs.
This refusal of care is a misguided following of that collective action. Other things that they are refusing to do, such as refusing shared care with other NHS specialist treatment, might have a clinic that’s attached to a hospital who can do prescriptions for patients that can no longer receive them from their GP. But for trans people, that doesn’t exist. You can’t get your prescriptions anywhere other than your GP.
So I don’t think that it is specifically and primarily anti-trans motivated. I think that the practice are so far down the rabbit hole of collective action against the NHS in their disagreement over funding that they have blinded themselves to the human impact of what they’re doing.
Alex: Yeah, during… We were informed that this decision also impacted people with private ADHD diagnoses, that they would stop treatment for that, and type 2 diabetes as well. But I’m under the impression that that is a much longer running, that they’ve been trying to start up an alternative clinic for the past nine months or so, for diabetics. Yeah.
Flint: Well, yeah, I mean, for when it comes to diabetes, I think the stigma is different, and it is a much more humanised condition than the existence of trans people as people or the, I would even go so far as to say ADHD. I think it’s a lot easier to argue that we shouldn’t be handing out things like Ritalin and whatnot than it is to argue that you shouldn’t hand out insulin. So what plans do you have or do you have any plans for how you’re going to handle being without?
Samantha: So I’ve already talked about my concerns about not receiving my testosterone blocker. I’m hoping to speak to the gender clinic about estrogen monotherapy and whether that would work for me. So that’s just being on estrogen and using your estrogen levels to block your testosterone. Obtaining estrogen on the internet is relatively easy and not at all legally problematic. My intention is to remain at the GP practice in order to continue being an issue for them. I want this problem to be resolved. I want them to realise the error of their ways, and I want them to resolve this for other patients.
And I feel like leaving the practice and finding somewhere else in Nottingham who are happy to continue issuing the same medication that loads of other people get for conditions that aren’t gender incongruent. I want them to resolve this problem and I feel like obtaining what I need is low risk enough, especially since I’m on a stable dose and I have been for years and just keep taking what I’m taking and use that to hopefully encourage the practice to not forget that I exist.
But obviously that’s a concern still. I would really rather that my healthcare was administered with the oversight of a medical professional and not just myself and my community. Although I’m saying it’s relatively easy to obtain and relatively easy to administer for yourself for feminising HRT, it’s not what I want. I don’t want to be in this position. I want to be able to see my doctor and I want to feel confident that they’re confident about treating me for what is super basic healthcare.
Like, you prescribe me some gel and occasionally check my blood tests and then look at them and you go, oh yeah, this number is between these two other numbers just as it has been for the past four years. Should we continue what we’ve been giving you? Yeah, great. That’s fine. Let’s do that. That’s absolutely okay. I can do that myself. However, I’d rather that somebody with a medical degree did it.
Alex: I’m not sure at the moment because I need to change medication. I need to explore moving to a different practice, which I’m very nervous about doing, in the sense that I don’t want to move and then discover that this just happens somewhere else. Now I’m going through the same thing, but with a different GP practice, although with all of the support that we have seen and all of the information that we’ve been given about how healthcare is funded in Nottingham, that feel – like since afternoon that does seem less likely than it did before Christmas.
The GP practice suggested that I go private, which I think is completely inappropriate, especially given the socioeconomic impact that being transgender can have. And I had to pay for top surgery privately, so I have loans for that. I can’t afford to go private for hormone treatment as well, especially after waiting four years on the NHS waiting list to be in this position.
Flint: Yeah.
Alex: It’s just ridiculous. The GP surgery has confirmed that if I chose to DIY my medication, they would treat me for any acute injuries I did to myself by self-injecting, which is very nice of them.
Alyx: What?!
Alex: I explicitly asked, I said, if I hurt myself while self-injecting medication, what are you going to do? They said, of course, we’ll treat you. Thank you very much.
Flint: Oh that’s so dystopian.
Samantha: For the injury, they won’t treat you. They won’t be like, oh, you’re [muffled] yourself by injecting yourself.
Alex: No, no, no, but they will treat any, any injuries. Which, yeah, it’s ridiculous, the demon.
Flint: Yeah, and obviously the DIY scenario, the legality surrounding that is different when you’re transmasculine or a trans man, which brings in different risks. And also you’re in a different point, an area of your care from Samathy, so it’s a different level of risks that you’re taking on as well in that scenario. And it’s freakish, really, that any GP is putting you in a position like that.
Alex: I had a problem with my blood test results. I feel like I really could do with the oversight to resolve those problems. But again, I feel the same as Samathy. I can’t take this lying down. We’re not going to stand by and let the practice do this to people and we don’t want them to, we don’t want them to feel like they can get away with it. So we will stick it out as long as possible, at least long enough to make sure that we’ve submitted all the necessary complaints before I go and find someone who wants me there.
Alyx: I think my microphone’s pop filter is just hiding the amount of times my mouth’s just been agape in shock from all of this. And I’m sure that everyone in the audience right now is just utterly shocked and really supporting your cause on this. And we’re definitely going to be signal boosting everything that people can do to help for your clinic. And I think we’ve already had some actions mentioned by Anna earlier yesterday, which… We’ll make sure to signpost everything and make sure that this all gets out there to put some pressure on the GP so they don’t get away with it.
Flint: Is there anything that you would like to encourage our listeners to do or to share? Is there any way for those who want to help support who maybe aren’t directly affected in terms of like, you know, trans people who aren’t being seen by this clinic or anything? Is there anything that they can do to help support, do you think? Or?
Samantha: Yeah, there’s loads of things. So locally, Nottingham, Nottingham Against Transphobia are fantastic. If you can support them, either financially or by joining the ranks whenever protests are organized. Please try and do that. You can find them on the internet, Nottingham against transphobia. There is support in place in Nottingham. Nottingham Trans Hub is a charitable organization who solely exists to support trans people and provide social opportunities and other various pieces of support.
Absolutely fantastic. If you’re affected by this or, you know, the general situation in Nottingham, look out for… go and find Nottingham Trans Hub. Slightly wider, if you’re worried or concerned about this or are affected by this in Nottingham, reach out to your local MP and talk about the issue that we’re experiencing in Nottingham. Nottingham Center for Transgender Health, the gender clinic, have been wonderful. Again, if you’re affected locally, talk to them, tell them that you’re affected, tell them that you’re worried about the situation. You know, there are people that they have access to which patients do not have access to.
Slightly more nationally, TransActual have a campaign and TransActual’s campaign has a survey on their website. So if you’re affected more nationally, go and look out for TransActual, fill in their survey, inform them, talk to them. They have an entire page of resources. It’s titled something like, “My GP has stopped giving me HRT” or something like that. It’s a step by step list of the things that you can do, the people that you complain to, who you need to reach out to and the support and resources that you might need to access. Again, if you’re affected nationally, Gendered Intelligence have a support line, which is fantastic. If you do need that support and you don’t have support networks more locally to you, gendered intelligence, give them a call, talk to them. They have advice, resources and are generally wonderful.
If you feel like being political, talk to your MP, send your MP an email, tell them about what’s happening locally to you, tell them about what’s happening nationally. Try to get things on people’s, in people’s inboxes, join protests, go to your local Pride events, go to your local Trans Pride events, organize a Pride event, organize a Trans Pride event, start a support group, do what you can. Importantly, do your best, but your best is what you’re able to do. So if this is overwhelming for you and you don’t feel like you’ve got the energy to be super-activist-y while also being a human in society, do what you can, send some emails, there are templates and stuff.
So yeah, do what you can. We will get through this. This too shall pass. It will be fine. We’ll manage. The trans community is great at supporting ourselves and as we’ve mentioned in other chats with the press, the need for medication does not go away even if the access through proper channels does go away and that does cause harm to people, but ultimately communities always step up to help and support the people who need the medication and the medical support, even if that access is removed. So don’t despair. You know, it’s not the end of the world.
Flint: Oh my god. I mean, obviously the elephant in the room is the…
Alyx: The shoplifting comment.
Flint: Exactly. How fucking dare you. Who gave you the right? Well, sure as shit, no medical body has given you the right to say that shit.
Alyx: No.
Flint: So, you know, I… no, not allowed. Not good.
Alyx: I was just like, what the fuck?
Flint: [laughs] Yeah.
Alyx: I couldn’t interrupt them because they were going over their horrors of their thing, and my mouth was agape. I was looking around the room thinking like, having a mad moment, like in utter shock. Like, you know, even if it was talking about their funding, it was one of the bits of care that there wasn’t an alternative way to get the fucking HRT because there was mentioned of previously… Some patients could get theirs through the hospital or something like that. But for trans patients, you don’t get that. So it’s just dropping them cold turkey without healthcare full stop.
Flint: And it’s kind of a sort of like a really like worst case scenario because they’ve been receiving pretty standard rudimentary care without much fuss or hassle beforehand. It’s not like there had been constant upon constant fuckeries. And then this. So it’s, you know, a lot of people had likely started to develop a certain level of trust to a certain extent, depending upon their experiences. Obviously, no one’s going to have the exact same experience at the same GP, even if they’re going for the same problems. Not that transness is a problem. Not, you know, we shouldn’t have to be engaging in such a pathologizing rhetoric of our existence to fucking live. But that’s a completely different conversation entirely.
Honestly, power to the patients. And… for bringing in the new year, in this way.
Ashleigh: Start as you mean to go on.
Flint: Abso-fucking-lutely.
Alyx: Oh definitely.
Flint: And it’s horrible that they’ve had to dedicate this much time and put so much, you know, effort and energy into something that is so vital and shouldn’t have to be fought over. But thank fuck people are fighting.
Alyx: No, exactly. I was seeing this story about 200 patients. And I was like, this is happening over and over for multiple people. I’m surprised no-one – I was thinking there’s got to be someone who’s going to do an action like this eventually. So I was ready to jump on it the moment it happened, really, to go…
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Flint: To push it out.
Ashleigh: And we have heard some people going slightly differently in a slightly different route, which is they’ve had some success talking with their ICB, the integrated Care Board for their area, and kind of going over the head of the GP to that board to try and resolve the issue. But that’s only regional, right? That will only work in your specific area. Like I couldn’t do either of you to use ICB because I’m not in your area. Whereas what could conceivable be done is the Nottingham patients could talk to the Nottingham ICB and kind of go over the heads of the GPs and get the ICB to tell the GPs to, you know, do your fucking job.
Alyx: Yeah, there’s a bunch of trans healthcare groups in multiple different NHS trusts who helped work with trans patients through this as well. And the people I’ve spoken to, they only sort in specific regional areas and have been unaware of other NHS patient groups that have come together nationwide to sort these things out. They haven’t really spoken to other folks.
So if anyone’s other part of the patients group, we’ve noticed some folks who would probably be interested in getting connected up and get in touch with us and we’ll put you in connection and see if we can get some more coordination because they were looking at putting up training for GPs to learn how to work with gender identity clinics if they had this particular situation where they dropped cold turkey and so on. A little bit of extra action if anyone’s ever interested, you know where we are.
Flint: Yeah, and even if you just want to see how things are shaken out, go give some love to Nottingham against transphobia.
Ashleigh: Hell yeah.
Flint: In case you happen to somehow not be following TransActual, there’s that. [laughs] I feel like we’ve plugged it enough here that it’s likely to already be a thing but obviously they have their GP forms and available resources, including a page if you have had your GP which obviously was plugged in the interview.
Alyx: Let’s put them up as our sponsors. [laughs] We don’t take sponsors.
Ashleigh: No, no, it’s, you know, there’s no hierarchy here. It’s a very flat structure. We all, you know, we lift each other as we climb, right? That’s the plan. Right, okay, so that’s, that’s a whole bunch of stuff we just threw out you. Some of it wasn’t very nice so let’s finish it off with a nice chaser, something lovely, something light, some trans joy for descent. Take it away.
Flint: Do you mean like a little bit of pud?
[clip – Aunty Donna] I’ll just get a sliver of pud, thanks. * How much put are we talking? Like about that much pud? * Maybe a little bit more pud than that, right? * Yeah, that’s what I thought, mate. Oh, mate, maybe a little bit more than that, mate.Alyx: And have some treacle pudding that we’ll force down your throat wherever you like it and not to make you happy.
Flint: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, maybe not, maybe not, maybe not. Consent, that is.
[consent klaxon]Ashleigh: That’s, that’s some happiness patrol bullshit there.
[laughter]Flint: So as we mentioned very briefly earlier on in the episode, a review that was commissioned by the New Zealand government has found puberty blockers to be, you’ll never guess, perfectly safe to use. They are described as a safe, effective and reversible form of gender-affirming care.
Alyx: Suck it, Cass.
[fart sounds]Ashleigh: So that’s two, right? Two for two.
Flint: Two for two.
Alyx: Yeah, and speaking of other people being made to suck it…
[suck it klaxon]Alyx: …it’s a train company, as a top EU court ruled that gender should not need to be declared when purchasing a train ticket, as it’s in breach of the GDPR.
Flint: which is ridiculous that that had to be ruled on.
Ashleigh: I know, right?
Flint: I can’t see when it, yeah. [laughs] Yet again, being non-binary in a situation where people start talking about why you need to have your gender written down, I was like, but why? I don’t get it.
Ashleigh: Yeah, what’s, what’s the point of this? Yeah.
Flint: And also Dr. Kaelin D. Zyger has recently completed their PhD. Congratulations.
Ashleigh: Well done. Woohoo, Dr. Z. Cool.
Flint: Yeah, Dr. Z.
Ashleigh: And Mayelise McCarcoll has recently completed a radio play about two Canadian trans people who go to the UK to attend a World Lumberjane competition, and inadvertently become the centre of a new moral panic. So keep an eye out for that.
Flint: I’m listening to the fuck out of that. That’s amazing.
Ashleigh: Yeah.
Flint: That premise I’m here for.
Ashleigh: Yeah, for sure.
Alyx: Oh, definitely. And speaking of folks in the UK, Carly Silver’s is sending in their GRC application today as of time of recording, 9th of Jan.
Flint: Ah, congrats.
Ashleigh: Congratulations. Hope it all goes through on the nod. It’s as painless as possible.
Flint: And Ethel Cain has recently released a new album and is in the top five in Apple Music. A trans artist. We love to see it.
Ashleigh: Woot, yep. The album is called Perverts. So yeah, check that one out.
Alyx: It seems like an interesting listen so far. I haven’t listened to enough of it, but it sounds pretty cool so far.
Ashleigh: And from our very own team, our security director, Olivia, has recently announced her engagement.
Alyx: Congratulations.
Ashleigh: Congratulations, Olivia.
Flint: Congratulations.
Alyx: It’s so exciting when I saw that on the Discord. I think I made sure I was the first person to comment. Congratulations on the Discord there.
Ashleigh: Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. We’ve all done it. And if not, you should do, team saying that I might be calling myself out there. I’ll double check.
Flint: [laughs] Can we quickly pop this into the trans joy section? We have a wonderful new member of the transcription team that has been really putting in the effort to make sure that all of these episodes get transcribed. And honestly, just got to throw out some love to them. Some love to Becky. Thank you so much for that.
Ashleigh: Yeah, that’s it. That’s us. That’s the end of the show. Fun was had. Amazing scenes. Huge if true, etc.
Flint: Everybody clap.
[much clapping]Ashleigh: So you can find us, of course, on the electrical interweb. We’re at whatthetrans.com. We’ve had another couple of really good articles from Viridian Lakes, our Japanese correspondent. You can obviously find us on Blue Sky. We’re on Facebook, although I don’t know for how much longer, given recent announcements.
[Pink Floyd: Money]Ashleigh: But if you’re able to, please share or support us on Patreon.com, because that allows us to carry on doing this, to spend some time devoted to it, to be able to go and attend these protests, these court hearings. You know. That’s the most common thing that our Patreon money is used for, is for train tickets. And it allows us to get out and do stuff.
Flint: Yeah.
Alyx: God I wish trains were cheaper.
Ashleigh: Well, we all do, I think. So yeah, thank you for listening and toodle-oo.
Flint: Bye. Thank you so much. Love you.
[outro music]Flint: This episode was written, produced and presented by Ashleigh Talbot, Alyx Bedwel and Flint, edited by Amber Roberts and Amber Devereux, and with our opening theme music composed by Waritsara Yui Karlberg, and our thumbnail by Uppoa Piers, with transcription performed by Sam Wyman, Rowan B, Rachel Aldred, Georgia Griffiths and Becky. Our Patreon producers are the main star of the show, though, and they are:
Flint, Ashleigh & Alyx: Lee Downs, Lindsay Cannon, George Simmons, Carly Silvers, B2, Smiley, friend of Candy from across the pond, The Socialist Party of Great Britain (1904), Sarah, Erris, Tim Rufo, Maestrum, Lex Phoenix, Sebastian Sings Soprano, Joe the low-quality enby, Andrea Brooks, Jack Edwards, Stefan Blakemore, [unclear], needles and threads, Flaming Dathne, Dr McGee, Gen, Janeway, Katie Reynolds, Georgia Holden Burnett, Grabilicious, Mx Aphen, Rootminusone, Grey, Elisabeth Anderson, Bernice Roust, Ellen Mellor, Jay Hoskins, Trowan, Ashley, Setcab, Jane, Roberto de Prunk, Rose Absolute, Sarah, Sinna, Kiki T, Dee, Skye Kilaen, Eric Widman, Bee, Jude, [French accordion plays] monsieur squirrel, Fergus Evans, anubisajackal, Camina, Brandon Craig, braykthasistim, Sian Phillips, Heidi Rearden, Ezra, Lentil, clara vulliamy, Amelia, Samantha Raven, Ravenheart bringer of the heavy metal, Tabitha Jo Cox aka Candy, Fiona Macdonell, Murgatroid, ontologicallyunjust, Stella, Cyndergosa, Rebecca Prentice…
Alyx: [coughs] [crazy reverb] Crazzee Richard
Flint: Crazy Rishan, I love it you did a Skexis one and I was gonna ask to do a Skexies one. Sick.
[laughter]Flint, Ashleigh & Alyx: danoblivion, Florence Stanley, Helen_, Elle Hollingsworth, Fiona Punchard, John, a mysterious, anonymous patron (ooooh! [X-Flies theme] [Mulder] Spooky), CB Bailey, Gordon Cameron, Ted Delphos, Kai Luren, Vic Parsons, Patreon User, Vic Kelly, Katherine, Sabrina McVeigh, Cassius Adair, Melissa Brooks, Karaken12, April Heller, Sofie Lewis, Alexandra Lilly, Claire Scott, Ariadne Pena, Lauren O’Nions, Bernard’s Pink Jellybean…
Alyx: And Lenos. Thank you everyone for watching.
Flint: Thank you so much.
Alyx: Bye!
Ashleigh: Thank you.
Flint: Bye. Happy New Year.
